ENY Update

[caldera]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread, as this isn't requesting an ord/no ord breakdown.

Here are the current ENY values, with proposed changes in red.  I considered survivability a bigger factor than ord lugging capacity.  All perk rides have an ENY of less than 5 and the Spit XIV would no longer be perked.


A6M2  -  40
A6M3  -  30
A6M5  -  20
109E-4  -  40
109F-4  -  30 25
109G-2  -  30 25
109G-6  -  30 25
109G-14  -  25 20
109K-4  -  20 12
110C-4  -  40
110G-2  -  15 20
B-239  -  30
C.202  -  40
C.205  -  25
F4F-4  -  35
F4U-1  -  25 20
F4U-1A  -  15 12
F4U-1C  -  5 4
F4U-1D  -  10
F4U-4  -  5 4
F6F-5  -  15
FM-2  -  25
190A-5  -  25
190A-8  -  25 22
190D-9  -  15 12
190F-8  -  25 28
Hurri I  -  40
Hurri IIC  -  12 10
Hurri IID  -  25 30
I-16  -  35
Ki-61  -  30
Ki-84  -  20 10
La-5  -  25 20
La-7  -  8 5
Me163  -  5 3
Me262  -  5 2
Me410  -  15 20
Mosquito  -  30 22
N1K2  -  8
P-38G  -  30 25
P-38J  -  20 15
P-38L  -  15 12
P-39D  -  35
P-39Q  -  30
P-40C  -  40
P-40E  -  35
P-40F  -  35 32
P-40N  -  30 28
P-47D11  -  30 25
P-47D25  -  25 20
P-47D40  -  20 16
P-47M  -  10
P-47N  -  10
P-51B  -  20
P-51D  -  5
Seafire  -  15 18
Spitfire I  -  40
Spitfire V  -  30 25
Spitfire IX  -  20 18
Spitfire VIII  -  10
Spitfire XIV  -  5  8
Spitfire XVI  -  5
Ta152  -  10 12
Tempest  -  5 4
Typhoon  -  8 10
Yak-9T  -  30
Yak-9U  -  23

[kvuo75]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread, as this isn't requesting an ord/no ord breakdown.

Here are the current ENY values, with proposed changes in red.  I considered survivability a bigger factor than ord lugging capacity.  All perk rides have an ENY of less than 5 and the Spit XIV would no longer be perked.


109G-14  -  25 20

 

[Karnak]

Other than early war planes you seem to mostly want just across the board ENY reductions.  That could have other effects on the game.

[caldera]

Care to elaborate?  At 20 ENY, it's still a bargain.  It should go a little lower even.

Other than early war planes you seem to mostly want just across the board ENY reductions.  That could have other effects on the game.

The early 109s are all reduced.  The mid war D11, P-40s and P-38s are reduced.  The Spit V and IX are reduced.
The 110G is increased, as is the 190 F8, Me 410, Seafire, Spit XIV, Ta 152 and Typhoon.

These changes better reflect the aircraft values and survivability (IMO).  Just throwing out that opinion.

As for effecting the game, it might make it more worthwhile for people to branch out a little.  The "lesser" planes should be worthwhile to take for a spin.  It would only effect perks earned anyway, since ENY only seems to kick in when the arena is sparsely populated (and yes, I know how it works  ). 

[kvuo75]

Care to elaborate?  At 20 ENY, it's still a bargain.  It should go a little lower even.

The early 109s are all reduced.  The mid war D11, P-40s and P-38s are reduced.  The Spit V and IX are reduced.
The 110G is increased, as is the 190 F8, Me 410, Seafire, Spit XIV, Ta 152 and Typhoon.

These changes better reflect the aircraft values and survivability (IMO).  Just throwing out that opinion.

As for effecting the game, it might make it more worthwhile for people to branch out a little.  The "lesser" planes should be worthwhile to take for a spin.  It would only effect perks earned anyway, since ENY only seems to kick in when the arena is sparsely populated (and yes, I know how it works  ). 

nevermind, i forgot we even had the g14!!

[Tank-Ace]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread, as this isn't requesting an ord/no ord breakdown.

Here are the current ENY values, with proposed changes in red.  I considered survivability a bigger factor than ord lugging capacity.  All perk rides have an ENY of less than 5 and the Spit XIV would no longer be perked.


A6M2  -  40
A6M3  -  30
A6M5  -  20
109E-4  -  40
109F-4  -  30 25 No
109G-2  -  30 25 No
109G-6  -  30 25 No
109G-14  -  25 20 probably not
109K-4  -  20 12 HELL no
110C-4  -  40
110G-2  -  15 20 Yes
B-239  -  30
C.202  -  40
C.205  -  25
F4F-4  -  35
F4U-1  -  25 20 No
F4U-1A  -  15 12
F4U-1C  -  5 4
F4U-1D  -  10
F4U-4  -  5 4
F6F-5  -  15
FM-2  -  25
190A-5  -  25
190A-8  -  25 22 I think not.
190D-9  -  15 12
190F-8  -  25 28  Thats as high as you'll go ????
Hurri I  -  40
Hurri IIC  -  12 10
Hurri IID  -  25 30
I-16  -  35
Ki-61  -  30
Ki-84  -  20 10!?!?!
La-5  -  25 20 sure
La-7  -  8 5
Me163  -  5 3
Me262  -  5 2 Definately not.
Me410  -  15 20 yes
Mosquito  -  30 22 NEGATIVE!
N1K2  -  8
P-38G  -  30 25 Nope
P-38J  -  20 15
P-38L  -  15 12
P-39D  -  35
P-39Q  -  30
P-40C  -  40
P-40E  -  35
P-40F  -  35 32 Not gonna happen
P-40N  -  30 28 P-40N = 190F-8?
P-47D11  -  30 25 P-47D11 =109G-2
P-47D25  -  25 20 D25 > 109G-2?
P-47D40  -  20 16
P-47M  -  10
P-47N  -  10
P-51B  -  20
P-51D  -  5
Seafire  -  15 18
Spitfire I  -  40
Spitfire V  -  30 25 
Spitfire IX  -  20 18
Spitfire VIII  -  10
Spitfire XIV  -  5  8 
Spitfire XVI  -  5
Ta152  -  10 12
Tempest  -  5 4
Typhoon  -  8 10
Yak-9T  -  30
Yak-9U  -  23

A lot of this makes no sense.

For one, ENY is apparently usage-based. And two, if ENY were performance-based, this would be worse than our current values in some ways.

[james]

Shouldn't the perk planes all be a 5 as a baseline? Then the rest go up from there as their ENY goes up? just a thought to this is all.

[Karnak]

As for effecting the game, it might make it more worthwhile for people to branch out a little.  The "lesser" planes should be worthwhile to take for a spin.  It would only effect perks earned anyway, since ENY only seems to kick in when the arena is sparsely populated (and yes, I know how it works  ).  

Seeing as you lowered the ENY for most of the "lesser" fighters that would actually discourage people from trying them out as there would be lower perk point rewards for flying them.

Certainly there are ENY adjustments that need to be made, but a significant lowering of the mean ENY rating isn't the adjustment we're looking for.

Shouldn't the perk planes all be a 5 as a baseline? Then the rest go up from there as their ENY goes up? just a thought to this is all.

Currently they are other than the 2 ENY B-29 and 8 ENY Mosquito Mk XVI.  I wouldn't object to the Me163 and Me262 also being reduced to 2 ENY.

[SmokinLoon]

109K-4  -  20 18
B-239  -  30 25
F4U-1  -  25 20
F4U-1A  -  15 12
F4U-1C  -  5 4
F4U-4  -  5 4
190A-8  -  25 22
190F-8  -  25 28
Hurri IIC  -  12 10
Ki-84  -  20 15
La-5  -  25 20
La-7  -  8 5
Me163  -  5 3
Me262  -  5 2
Me410  -  15 20
Mosquito  -  30 22
P-51B  -  20 15
P-51D  -  5 4
Spitfire IX  -  20 18
Spitfire XIV  -  5  8
Spitfire XVI  -  5  4
Ta152  -  10 12
Tempest  -  5 4
Typhoon  -  8 10

Bombers and gv's could use an update too.

[save]

109K-4  -  20 18
B-239  -  30 25     
F4U-1  -  25 20    (17)
F4U-1A  -  15 12   (10)
F4U-1C  -  5 4
F4U-4  -  5 4
190A-8  -  25 22    ever tried to dogfight in it ?
Hurri IIC  -  12 10
Ki-84  -  20 15
La-5  -  25 20
La-7  -  8 5
Me163  -  5 3
Me262  -  5 2
Me410  -  15 20 (25) face it, any fighter it can't HO, kills it,
Mosquito  -  30 22
P-51B  -  20 15
P-51D  -  5 4
Spitfire IX  -  20 18
Spitfire XIV  -  5  8
Spitfire XVI  -  5  4
Ta152  -  10 12
Tempest  -  5 4
Typhoon  -  8 10

[Karnak]

I still think you guys are focusing too much on lowering ENY ratings.  Sure, some things need to be lowered, but others should be raised, and just the slight increases for the Bf110G-2, Fw190F-8, Me410 and Spitfire Mk XIV don't really get that done.  For example, it is laughable to put the Spitfire Mk V at the same ENY level as the vastly superior Fw190A-5.

[Tilt]

Any changes in ENY that influence score or perk earnings is OK for me

Not a fan of an ENY system that denies access to ac. I would prefer that as side ENY kicks in so a perk  is added.

e.g. Total Perk price = perk price - (ENY-ENY Threshold )

Last night the ENY threshold was 11 so rather then being denied my La7 I would have had to deposit a perk of 3 points.

[Karnak]

Any changes in ENY that influence score or perk earnings is OK for me

Not a fan of an ENY system that denies access to ac.

This is how the ENY system originally worked.  It had no effect at all.

I would prefer that as side ENY kicks in so a perk  is added.

e.g. Total Perk price = perk price - (ENY-ENY Threshold )

Last night the ENY threshold was 11 so rather then being denied my La7 I would have had to deposit a perk of 3 points.

I wouldn't mind that as an intermediate step added on top of the flat removal of aircraft we have now, but by itself would effectively defeat the ENY based population balancing effect.  If your side has twice the numbers of your opposition you are going to be pretty dang safe in your perked P-51D simply due to numbers.

[caldera]

I still think you guys are focusing too much on lowering ENY ratings.  Sure, some things need to be lowered, but others should be raised, and just the slight increases for the Bf110G-2, Fw190F-8, Me410 and Spitfire Mk XIV don't really get that done.  For example, it is laughable to put the Spitfire Mk V at the same ENY level as the vastly superior Fw190A-5.

Try taking two average players in A5s and have them tag team a lower Spit V, then see how long the Spit lasts.  Then try the same, but with two Spits versus a lower A5.  The lone Spit V would last much longer than the lone A5 (if the A5 couldn't run).  The Seafire is currently at 15 ENY, yet the somewhat comparable Spit V can't be dropped from 30 to 25?

Laughable is having the Ki-84 at 20 ENY, while the Spit VIII is 10 ENY.

[Karnak]

I really don't care about the inability of a rank newbie to use the Fw190A-5 as well as the simple roll on side and pull stick back into belly evasion of the Spitfire V.  If you want to make that argument then the A6M2 should have a lower ENY than the Fw190D-9.  It is much more appropriate to base the ENY values on actual aircraft capabilities and usage and how easy they are for a newbie to survive in.

As to the Ki-84 vs Spitfire Mk VIII, well, the Spitfire climbs much better, turns better without the finicky flaps, has better firepower, has 5 minutes of WEP and is faster at many altitudes.  The Ki-84 turns better with flaps, has more fuel endurance, is tougher, rolls better, carries more ordnance and has fast recharging WEP.  In a single fight the Spitfire VIII is probably superior, at least on paper, but the Ki-84 is probably the better warplane overall.