Dealing with High 109s and 190s

[Tank-Ace]

Well there's the problem with basing your answer on old information. Last month the 109's were responsible for better than 20% of all the kills.

Hmmm.... sounds like I'm missing out.

<S> 109 pilots, keep up the good work.

Also the game isn't played over 10-12k, except for buff hunting....what little there is. Today's player for the most part is looking for quick action. They don't climb very high and they come in HOin almost anything they can find. Todays game is a bit different "than you remember".

Well thats kind of the point of ingressing at 10K + though. You come in above most enemies (and therefore have more E than most of them), you can work your way down through the pile, and don't have to worry about being BnZ'ed as much. And you don't have to wade through all the HO's, turny-twits, and other undesierables.



From what it sounds like in the OP, hes either getting jumped while ingressing, or egressing. For me personally, 5K is just the wrong altitude to be at in a Jug when going into the fight. And if he's egressing...... well, he'd do better to stick to the deck in that case.

[LilMak]

Very good advise here on how to fight in Low E situations vs 109 and 190s. The thing to keep in mind here is they are two very different planes vs the jug and evasives are different as well.

Speed is key when fighting either so the first thing you do when you see that enemy coming in on top of you is level and hit the WEP till you get at least 250 on the dial (ideally 300+). You're not going to outrun a 109 or 190 on a perch so, once you get your speed up, turn the WEP off and save it for when you can work the enemies speed down to that closer to yours. In either case (109 or 190) show them your 6 and let them come in on ya.

For 109s (especially K4s) let them get close before you start your turns. Most of the good sticks won't start letting taters go until they get D600 or closer. When you're At speeds of three hundred or greater 109s can't roll or pull up as fast as you can because they're fighting stick forces you don't have to contend with in a Jug. Your goal now is to make them burn energy while you try to conserve it. I'll usually start with a roll in either direction and a light pull on the elevator to see if they're committed to an attack. If they roll to follow I'll slightly increase my G load so they can't pull lead without blacking out. This is usually the point where most 109s will give up the chase and start to go back into the vert to reset another attack. If they do, DON'T turn back into them and try to chase. Level or set up a shallow dive and hit the WEP again. Get some separation and let him slow down while he loops over the top. Then you can star shallow turns into the attacker to keep him out of phase. If you can work him into a slower scissor type fight you may have opportunities to force overshoots and get some shots on him before he can pull away. The thing about the M is it will hang on the prop longer than the other Jugs and surprise the unwary 109 pilot. Once it runs out of WEP though its just a D-40. The problem with 109s (especially the K-4) is a good stick will always maintain an advantage over a jug. If you run into an uber K-4 pilot, you'll rarely beat him unless he makes a mistake. The k-4 just has too much raw power for even the best jug pilot to overcome.

The 190 is a much easier nut to crack than the 109. The only decisive advantage it holds over the the jug at low altitudes is a better thrust to weight and therefore climbs and accelerates better. As mentioned previously, it rolls better but it's not significant enough to be a factor. While it's true the 190 has good high speed handling, it can't flat turn as well as a Jug especially when you incorporate the flaps on the P-47. An engagement with a 190 goes much he same as the 109 but you'll want to start you initial turn sooner than with the 109 since they Cary greater armorment and turn better at high speeds. Since the 190 doesn't have the raw power or turning ability of the 109, it's much easier to make them burn their E and take them out. When you perfect your jug skills, lone 190s will be easy meat no matter what altitude or direction they come from. The only 190 I fear in any Jug is the A5 because it usually an uber stick an it turns better than the other 190s.

Keys to being good in a Jug.

Speed is your freind.
Try to keep fights going down hill to avoid burning you E and playing into the enemies hands.
Never underestimate the power of the properly timed zoom climb. (Especially in an M)
Altitude is your friend but not when you're learning. Seek out fights and get yourself into situations that are not ideal.
Record your fights an watch them from the enemies perspective.

[Randy1]

Even more good advice.  This thread is a wealth of information and different opinions.  I have learned a lot.

[Tank-Ace]

When you're At speeds of three hundred or greater 109s can't roll or pull up as fast as you can because they're fighting stick forces you don't have to contend with in a Jug. Your goal now is to make them burn energy while you try to conserve it.

Great general advice, but I feel it needs some clarification. 109's are all more than capable of fighting above 300mph, save for the 109E which is just kind of capable.... they're just not as good at it. Point being don't deal in absolutes with the 109, or any aircraft for that matter; think "he probably won't be able to follow this maneuver, but if he does, I'll do ____"

And as to the energy point, watch out for the K4. You'll need about 1 1/2 times the E advantage compared to the other 109's, and even then you should be a bit leery of him.

If you can work him into a slower scissor type fight you may have opportunities to force overshoots and get some shots on him before he can pull away. The thing about the M is it will hang on the prop longer than the other Jugs and surprise the unwary 109 pilot. Once it runs out of WEP though its just a D-40. The problem with 109s (especially the K-4) is a good stick will always maintain an advantage over a jug. If you run into an uber K-4 pilot, you'll rarely beat him unless he makes a mistake. The k-4 just has too much raw power for even the best jug pilot to overcome.

Can't over epmphasize the K-4 point. Theres a decent chance that, if he sees himself starting to overshoot, he could get away with shenanigans like just lifting the nose and climbing to safety with pure horsepower. Keep in mind he's putting out over 1700hp, he weighs only a little over 7500lbs, and has over 9 minutes of continuous WEP, which will strech to more like 15 or 20 minutes of intermittent use if he's smart.

While it's true the 190 has good high speed handling, it can't flat turn as well as a Jug especially when you incorporate the flaps on the P-47. *snip* The only 190 I fear in any Jug is the A5 because it usually an uber stick an it turns better than the other 190s.

Again, don't take that "as well" to mean that the 190 is incapable of flat-turning. Only one that is really incapable of turning at all is the 190F, but thats just because he weighs a hell of a lot more than the others. Though the odds of getting bounced by one is probably lower than the odds of getting bounced by a Hurricane Mk I. As Mak said, watch the A-5's; they're possibly the most dangerous purely in terms of the aircraft, and have a higher chance of being flown by an ace.

Oh, and again, don't let them get a crossing shot. They carry buckets of ammo for the 20mm, will be very liberal with the trigger if they get a good shot, and the A-8 carries two 30mm's. Even just flying through that will ruin your day.

[Oldman731]

Altitude is your friend but not when you're learning. Seek out fights and get yourself into situations that are not ideal.

This is most excellent advice for anyone, in any plane.

- oldman

[deadstikmac]

Necro bump. 

[coombz]

how to deal with a high 109:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZCia9kWMdQ

[LCADolby]

How to deal with a 109; Fly a spitfire

fixed

[coombz]

ya spitfire plane best plane gg 

[ozrocker]

I am not an expert at this game but sometimes I do manage to hold my own and put up a good fight, but no matter how many times I get shot down I just keep re-upping, I enjoy talking to everyone in game and just here to have a good time

Well said and Ditto



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