Chinese lands jets on first Carrier.

[fullmetalbullet]

Yup i found this video when lookign up carrier aircraft videos. i may be a little late, and many of you possibly know this. but just throwing this out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVKSg3mwN8Y

[Mace2004]

The Chinese have taken the "long view" of carrier aviation and have been preparing for years.  There have been reports that they've sent young men to the US for school and specifically to join the US Navy to learn how we do carrier aviation.  Most people don't know it but you don't have to be a US citizen to join the US military.  After their enlistments are up they return to China and pass on our TTPs.  It looks like there is probably some truth to the reports because their flight deck ops look virtually identical to ours right down to the FOD walkdowns, float coats, cranials (flight deck crew helmets), the color coding of the flight deck crew and even the hand signals.

[Changeup]

The Chinese design limits high operational tempo in blue water ops.  Without a steam powered cat for launching, they are limited to one bird per launch evolution using a "ramp".  This means four times as much time on-station to get their birds in the air in a rapid reaction launch or airborne interdiction tasking order due to the US having twin-steam systems for dual launches.  I wouldn't want to be a ChiComm naval aviator in reaction situation, lol

The advantage is evident.  They will need to produce and put to sea, four times as many CV's as the US to maintain the same amount of operationally significant power projection and they have just launched #1....guess they have to start somewhere right?

EDIT:  Also notice that to tandem launch, the a/c departure points from a twin set are the same.  That means its impossible for them to dual launch/single recover simultaneously.  We can twin launch/single recover, 24/7.

[Changeup]

The Chinese have taken the "long view" of carrier aviation and have been preparing for years.  There have been reports that they've sent young men to the US for school and specifically to join the US Navy to learn how we do carrier aviation.  Most people don't know it but you don't have to be a US citizen to join the US military.  After their enlistments are up they return to China and pass on our TTPs.  It looks like there is probably some truth to the reports because their flight deck ops look virtually identical to ours right down to the FOD walkdowns, float coats, cranials (flight deck crew helmets), the color coding of the flight deck crew and even the hand signals.

Mace...those FOD walk downs have been onboard French, US, and Brit CV's since the jet age.  If they did have ChiComm naval escapees, they didnt teach their handlers much....flight deck design is so anacronistic its almost silly.  I guess the Navy didn't let them in the cat room, lol

[Nathan60]

The Chinese design limits high operational tempo in blue water ops.  Without a steam powered cat for launching, they are limited to one bird per launch evolution using a "ramp".  This means four times as much time on-station to get their birds in the air in a rapid reaction luanch or airborne interdiction tasking order due to the US having twin-steam systems for dual launches.  I wouldn't want to be a ChiComm naval aviator in reaction situation, lol

The advantage is evident.  They will need to produce and put to sea, four times as many CV's as the US to maintain the same amount of operationally significant power projection and they have just launched #1....guess they have to start somewhere right?

As I understand it this first carrier is just that thier stepping stone. I am sure they will copy the Nimitz at somepoint.

[TwinBoom]

China lands Stolen Design Russian jet on Russian Carrier

Fixed for ya

[Changeup]

As I understand it this first carrier is just that thier stepping stone. I am sure they will copy the Nimitz at somepoint.

Probably but it doesn't seem to fit their operational desires.  Why start with this monstrosity when you could do it more effectively and more efficiently....and here's the reason (they could apparently steal our stealth plans but the CV designs must not have fit on one flash memory drive, lol):

They bought this CV from the Russians and refit it....from the Washington Post (11-28-12):

"But China’s announcement on Sunday of landings on its first operational carrier the Liaoning – a reconditioned Soviet era vessel purchased from Ukraine ostensibly for use as a casino — will unnerve some of its already jumpy neighbours.
 
With the exception of a small force in the Indian Ocean to counter piracy, China’s entire naval focus remains on its immediate neighbourhood — the South China Sea, particularly Taiwan, and disputed waters with Japan, Vietnam and others."

[Mace2004]

Probably but it doesn't seem to fit their operational desires.  Why start with this monstrosity when you could do it more effectively and more efficiently....and here's the reason (they could apparently steal our stealth plans but the CV designs must not have fit on one flash memory drive, lol):

They bought this CV from the Russians and refit it....from the Washington Post (11-28-12):

"But China’s announcement on Sunday of landings on its first operational carrier the Liaoning – a reconditioned Soviet era vessel purchased from Ukraine ostensibly for use as a casino — will unnerve some of its already jumpy neighbours.
 
With the exception of a small force in the Indian Ocean to counter piracy, China’s entire naval focus remains on its immediate neighbourhood — the South China Sea, particularly Taiwan, and disputed waters with Japan, Vietnam and others."

As I mentioned, China is taking the long-view of this and are working on at least two different indigenous designs of their own (one conventional and one Nuc probably based off the Soviet Ulyanovsk). It is their good luck that they were able to purchase the Soviet Varyag at a bargain basement price. While it can't compete against a Nimitz class boat its bigger and at least as effective as any other CV in existence.  Sure, their current strategy is not really "blue water" but that's changing and, according to their own writings, blue water and global power projection is their future. CVs aren't defensive weapon systems, their only purpose is power projection and that's why the Chinese are building them and what they intend to use them for.

[Butcher]

China has come a long way as a developing nation to land their first jet on a carrier. In March 2013 it will be 91 years since the Langley was commissioned as a united states naval carrier.

[Karnak]

That thing is as effective as the big French CVs?  I am skeptical.

I believe India also has one of those carriers in service, though they have been operational with it for a bit if I recall.  Of course nobody here is alarmed at India having a CV because, I guess, India is seen as a friendly democracy.

INS Vikrant:


Seems India is building another CV of domestic design as well.  Expected to enter service in 2017 to 2020.

[Mace2004]

That thing is as effective as the big French CVs?  I am skeptical.

I believe India also has one of those carriers in service, though they have been operational with it for a bit if I recall.  Of course nobody here is alarmed at India having a CV because, I guess, India is seen as a friendly democracy.

INS Vikrant:
(Image removed from quote.)

Seems India is building another CV of domestic design as well.  Expected to enter service in 2017 to 2020.

The Charles De Gaulle is only 41,000 tons, 860ft, and 40 aircraft compared to the Liaoning at 67,500 tons, 1,000ft, and  54 aircraft.  It also only has two catapults which means its sortie rate is probably similar to the Liaoning.  Granted, the De Gaulle is a nuc but the number of aircraft and smaller size are big limits.  The Indians are building a 40,000 ton class CV to go along with their old Viraat (ex Hermes) that is not only ancient (launched in 1953) but comparatively tiny at 29,000 tons.  Their other "big" boat would be a Kiev class boat that they're currently building but the Kiev was classified by the Soviets as a cruiser.  It's nicely sized but is extremely limited in that it doesn't have a full flight deck and carries only about 30 aircraft.

[Sabre]

China has come a long way as a developing nation to land their first jet on a carrier. In March 2013 it will be 91 years since the Langley was commissioned as a united states naval carrier.

Ditto, and as Mace says, they're taking the long view. Recall that our first CV was a converted coal tender; our next two were built from the unfinished hulls of two battlecruisers (the BCs were to be scrapped as part of the Washington Naval Treaty).  Our third fleet CV was build from the keel up as a CV. They've managed to skip steps one and two.  Plus, they don't have to learn everything from scratch.  They're operating 4th or 5th gen fixed wing, conventional fighters off that thing.  Fifteen years from now, they may own the western Pacific.  Think about this, too. US yearly interest payments to China nearly equal their current defense budget.  So, our borrowing is basically funding the very same military buildup we may one day find chases us out of the Western Pacific.

[GScholz]

The Chinese have taken the "long view" of carrier aviation and have been preparing for years.  There have been reports that they've sent young men to the US for school and specifically to join the US Navy to learn how we do carrier aviation.  Most people don't know it but you don't have to be a US citizen to join the US military.  After their enlistments are up they return to China and pass on our TTPs.  It looks like there is probably some truth to the reports because their flight deck ops look virtually identical to ours right down to the FOD walkdowns, float coats, cranials (flight deck crew helmets), the color coding of the flight deck crew and even the hand signals.

However they could have gotten all that from watching the Discovery channel, or better yet, read a book.

[Plawranc]

I've said it a million times and will say it again.

Pearl Harbor, 9/11, Gulf War 2, Vietnam and even the Spanish American war in the late 19th century.

Believing your enemy to be inferior to you and nothing to worry about. Is a very very bad idea.

[Mace2004]

However they could have gotten all that from watching the Discovery channel, or better yet, read a book.

Yes, the Discovery Channel is great. You can also learn all you need to fly to the Moon and back!