Author Topic: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling  (Read 1853 times)

Offline Krusty

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2012, 06:40:02 PM »
By what logic did they double the acceleration, boost the climb, and increase speeds +15mph???

That's totally wrong. I gotta say.

Offline Karnak

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2012, 06:43:32 PM »
I didn't notice that kind of improvement.  I'll test it against my old Hurri IIc numbers.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2012, 06:52:34 PM »
Referencing MOSQ's recent tests with old vs new. See previous page for his post.

Offline Karnak

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2012, 06:57:35 PM »
Referencing MOSQ's recent tests with old vs new. See previous page for his post.
Yeah, those are deck speeds though.  I'd need to look at Hurricane charts to judge them.  It is also possible that the Hurricane Mk I was bumped from 87 octane to 100 octane for BoB purposes.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2012, 07:02:04 PM »
That old controversy?

Offline Badboy

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2012, 07:19:54 PM »
Yes the 30DPS plane will get around the circle faster and get behind the tighter radius plane, but you are incorrect when you say it will have the tighter radius plane in his gunsight. He can see it, but not shoot it, because to get enough lead to hit the plane the faster dps plane would need to pull a smaller radius, which it can't. So he can fly in trail of the tighter radius plane all day watching him in his forward up view but won't be able to get a guns solution.

Hi MOSQ, good work on the data!

I would like to comment on the situation you describe above though, because it is only true if the aircraft were flying like drones. In a dynamic combat situation it is easy for either of the two pilots who find themselves flying perfectly concentric circles as you describe, to change the geometry of the fight. Either pilot can change the geometry of the turn to offset the turn circles, for example with a high or low Yo-Yo (as Mace mentions). Once the circles are offset, the situation is very much more complicated, and knowing the why when and how of it is very important because it is easy to change the geometry and get yourself into trouble if you don't understand the dynamics of how two offset turn circles interact particularly when different radii and turn rates are involved. Of course if a good pilot recognises that his opponent is trying to offset the turn circles for an advantage, he can maneuver to realign them again but once an offset has been created, it can allow one or other pilot to shoot across the circle. The trick is in knowing how to change the geometry of the fight to make sure it favours you when you have either a better turn rate or a better turn radius.

That's why having the data helps, it informs your flying style and allows you to make the right choices in a fight.

Keep up the good work.

Badboy



 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 07:21:38 PM by Badboy »
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Offline MOSQ

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2012, 01:59:01 PM »
Hi Badboy,
Thanks. Over the years it's been a pleasure working with you to help get info and data out to the community.  :cheers:

I guess I should have said that perfect circles are almost impossible for two pilots to maintain. I have a hell of of a time just doing three circles at one time with no gain/loss of altitude when doing the testing.

To the other readers here: I should also say that regarding my tests, YMMV! Some pilots can turn tighter circles than I can, I know WideWing has beat me at it in testing several times. But we are talking minor differences. However my overall rankings work well because I'm consistently not as good! I'll probably start a new thread and post up my newly revised No Flaps and Full Flaps turn lists if ya'll are interested in them.

Trusting that your Brewster can out turn a Spit I because the Brewster has a 10' tighter radius will not work. I generally think anything less than a 75' radius difference is almost  irrelevant in a "real" (virtual) fight. Pilot skill plays a far more important factor because even the slightest error causing a stall will more than make up the difference in the radius.  More than a 75'  radius difference and generally the tighter turning plane should win most of the time.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2012, 03:42:35 AM »
I dont care about the flight model as much as I like the guns! Those 12 .303s are brutal!  :devil
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Offline Slade

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2012, 06:25:02 AM »
Quote
By what logic did they double the acceleration, boost the climb, and increase speeds +15mph???

That is mainly below 4k (and varies per model and load-out)  AH tends to make changes that match the actual WWII planes.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: New Hurricane Models and Flight Modelling
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2012, 07:15:04 AM »
I've had only a short time in the new Hurricane Mk.II. My subjective feeling is that it matches more closely to the handling trials/anecdotes that I've read. The roll rate seems to have gotten slower at low speeds.  Hurricane was known for it's rather sluggish ailerons/roll acceleration and neutral pitch stability and therefore somewhat sensitive elevator.

One thing to note are the power settings. As the all gun packages are under the same Mk.II Hurricane, Like the IIc, Mk.IIa and IIb run at 14lbs boost setting which was only cleared in Nov.'42 which makes it appropriate for the IIc but not very appropriate for the earlier variants. Earlier settings for Merlin XX was 12lbs. Making the rifle caliber equipped Hurries a separate unit would have made different maximum power settings possible.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 07:19:01 AM by Wmaker »
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