Author Topic: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...  (Read 7267 times)

Offline ink

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #90 on: December 21, 2012, 12:35:09 AM »
Honestly, who are you to tell people how to spend their money? I haven't seen anyone ask why you pay for AH II every month. Doesn't that cost a bit over the years including computers, upgrades, sticks, internet, etc...? I don't think you need it, then again, maybe you do. How much have you spent or wasted on that? How about we decide how you spend your money or decide what is ethical or moral or needed for you? Hunting is in no way cheap and I hazard much more expensive than plinking a few hours away. Do you need that much meat at one time? I can't eat that much before it would be freezer burned. Oh, perhaps you are the humanitarian who is conserving wildlife herds and habitats by shooting animals or you donate the meat to feed the needy. Good for you. In my opinion the vast majority of hunters are in reality harvesters who sit and lure the animal with feed plots or use cameras to pattern them, etc... etc.... If you track and stalk your kills then I consider you a hunter, but who am I to label you? Nobody, that's who. I personally do not think it is your or anyone elses business why or how I legally spend money just as I do not care why or how you decide to hunt or play Aces High or anything else you decide is right for you. Hiding behind the thinly veiled premise of "just curious" is so passive aggressive as to be absurd and demonstrates a very cheap character in my personal opinion. Will it be okay if I buy the Expendables DVD this weekend? I don't need it and it has a lot of gratuitous violence. Do you think I will be safe to watch it without becoming mentally or criminally unstable? Please let me know soon before I make a mistake since I could just rent it or not watch it altogether. How very presumptuous of you sir. I do not think you are curious, I think you are judgmental and reproachful. You have your opinion, perhaps you should have kept it to yourself though. Just my opinion.


 

well some are blaming video games for this latest shooting :rolleyes:

all kinds of people are trying to get violent games made illegal........ same with violent movies....




Offline TheMercinary60

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #91 on: December 21, 2012, 12:47:49 AM »
well some are blaming video games for this latest shooting :rolleyes:

all kinds of people are trying to get violent games made illegal........ same with violent movies....




i personally dont see the connection, IMO its the media, lets face it people know the names of the  people responsible for all the violence then the victims or even key figures in today's world, its all about being remembered, its the same idea with suicides, if someone commits suicide and gets in the paper for it then youre inviting others to do the same. it happened a number of years ago in a community just north of my, its the same basic principle and its all about ratings or pushing some agenda. personally i dont watch the news anymore i quit maybe five years ago, i read the paper every so often but thats about the extent of it. i may be wrong about all this but i really believe if we stop televising things like this there is a good chance we could see stuff like this drop off
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Offline Halo46

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #92 on: December 21, 2012, 01:07:58 AM »
well some are blaming video games for this latest shooting :rolleyes:

all kinds of people are trying to get violent games made illegal........ same with violent movies....





Like Aces High? Or maybe worse, Aces High BBS...?

It is a complicated issue for sure, but my point was not violence in society, but others telling people what to think, believe, or do; especially when they attempt to disguise their intentions. Stating an opinion about the issue is one thing, this post went beyond that.



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Offline Ardy123

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #93 on: December 21, 2012, 01:37:55 AM »
Like Aces High? Or maybe worse, Aces High BBS...?

It is a complicated issue for sure, but my point was not violence in society, but others telling people what to think, believe, or do; especially when they attempt to disguise their intentions. Stating an opinion about the issue is one thing, this post went beyond that.

I don't think video games had anything to do with it.. but the shooter had a history of mental troubles and was on mood correcting medication. The real question was why was this kid ever given access to weapons???? (or even in the proximity of them)...
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Offline ink

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #94 on: December 21, 2012, 01:55:56 AM »
Like Aces High? Or maybe worse, Aces High BBS...?

It is a complicated issue for sure, but my point was not violence in society, but others telling people what to think, believe, or do; especially when they attempt to disguise their intentions. Stating an opinion about the issue is one thing, this post went beyond that.





 :headscratch:

I spoke what I was reading about...that is all...I certainly don't agree with what they are saying.....my :rolleyes: didn't clue you in?

maybe I just misunderstand what you are saying.

Offline Flench

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #95 on: December 21, 2012, 04:49:47 AM »
For my home I take my shotgun over anything else . Most of your shoots are going to be close range anyway so a shotgun is the way to go . With a rifle after you shoot a few rounds through it , it's going  to get hot and start shooting off anyway .
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Offline branch37

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #96 on: December 21, 2012, 06:54:59 AM »
I don't think video games had anything to do with it.. but the shooter had a history of mental troubles and was on mood correcting medication. The real question was why was this kid ever given access to weapons???? (or even in the proximity of them)...

That was exactly my thought.  I live in a small 2 bedroom apartment with my girlfriend.  I keep a .40 S&W pistol in my bedside drawer God forbid I ever have to use it, but it is there if the situation presents itself.  Now on the other hand, all my long guns, and other pistols are stored in a secure safe at my moms house since I have no need for them here.  She frequently has small children around that are at that perfect age where they like to play with everything in sight.  My gun safe is outside the actual house in the garage where I store all my other hunting equipment.  There is no way anybody but me could get access to a firearm at that house.  Not even my mom knows the combination.  All it takes to prevent these shootings is a little responsibility on the part of the gun owner.

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Offline DJ111

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #97 on: December 21, 2012, 07:56:48 AM »
With a rifle after you shoot a few rounds through it , it's going  to get hot and start shooting off anyway .

Um.... What?...
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #98 on: December 21, 2012, 08:37:00 AM »
Tacticool.  LOL I like that description Widewing.

These guys kinda scare me

(Image removed from quote.)

For everyone's information, that photo was put together to make fun of the guys who get in to that kind of stuff.  No one in their right mind would even consider putting %90 of the stuff shown in the picture on their own rifle, especially all at once.  The optics and electronic sights do not even match up for a co-witness (co-witness = able to use multiple sights at once).  The weight alone of all that stuff has to triple the weight of the rifle, and ultimately does not make it any better.  Think of it as buying a Shelby Cobra Mustang and not knowing how to actually use it on the track.  The only thing I have ever had my rifle/carbine that was an "add-on", other than an optic was a light mounted to the front hand guard, and that was while I was working for the sheriff's office.  Most of us carried a M4 carbine (semi-auto) with a light because in many cases we had to have a hand free for radio work, handcuffs, etc, and having a light on the rifle killed to birds with one stone.  I also had a light on my Sig 226R handgun for the same reason.

Some guys go way too far, they buy all this gear, etc, and they do not know how to use it and/or they never really train with it to get to know the gear in the first place.  Even without all my law enforcement training, I still have a very good base of knowledge regarding tactics and training to pull from.  I spent 10 days down at Thunder Ranch down in TX back in 1998 while taking rifle and handgun courses, and I've been shooting and 'smithing AR15's since 1993.  Plus, when I have the range to myself I will do all the running, jumping, rolling, Rambo somersaulting, Samurai war shouts, and rifle-katana attacks on the targets to keep my skills honed.  :aok  Actually, I do work on the tactics I've learned over the years such as using different firing positions, moving and shooting, and engaging multiple targets.  When I get a chance while on the wide open steppes of Wyoming, I'll run the gauntlet which means to set up targets in increments of 25-50 yards in zig-zag pattern 20-30 yards apart for 300 yards length wise and start at the point blank firing 5-8 shots at the target then falling back to the next target (jogging/running), then engaging again the target I just left behind.  This simulates a retreat/falling back while keeping the pursuers at bay in an urban setting.  The trick is to keep moving from cover to cover, creating space between you and the perps, and keeping their heads down. Once at the end of the gauntlet you'll be very short of breath, have a hot rifle, and have spent 30-50 rounds downrange at the target(s).  It is fun, but very trying.  There are other drills that I/we do as well, just sitting at a bench shooting at static targets sets the base mechanics for using the rifle and for learning proper shooting skills, but applying them while in a 'zone is a different thing altogether.    

Someone else mentioned the cost of shooting ammo at the range.  For most people it costs around 40-50 cents a round when speaking of .223/5.56 NATO or the 7.62x39 Soviet (AK and SKS) ammo.  In contrast, 50 rounds of 9mm Luger still runs about 20 cents a shot.  For those of us who reload our own ammo, the cost is 1/4th to 1/3rd of what the "off the shelf" buyers purchase.  For 5.56 NATO, we can re-use brass as many as 5-6 times (many of us get brass for free), primers are 3 cents a piece, powder charges are about 5 cents a piece, bullets are about 10 cents a piece.  We had to make an initial investment of $300-400 (or more) for all the reloading equipment, but that is usually paid off within the first 800 to 1000 rounds or so.  I dont keep track officially, but between all my firearms I've fired somewhere between 1000 and 15 rounds this year with most of it going out the 9mm Sig 226 and 5.56 Colt AR15.  I reload for 15 different calibers.        
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #99 on: December 21, 2012, 08:46:08 AM »
Um.... What?...

I think he's referring to the typical accuracy degradation most rifles see once the barrel heats up and begins contacting other parts of the gun... which usually isn't much of an issue with an AR because most setups are "free float" barrels.  

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Offline DJ111

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #100 on: December 21, 2012, 09:01:33 AM »
I think he's referring to the typical accuracy degradation most rifles see once the barrel heats up and begins contacting other parts of the gun... which usually isn't much of an issue with an AR because most setups are "free float" barrels.  



I'm slightly worried, having put several hundred rounds through one of my rifles (AR) in a short amount of time, there was no noticeable drop in accuracy.

 :headscratch:
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #101 on: December 21, 2012, 09:17:00 AM »
I'm slightly worried, having put several hundred rounds through one of my rifles (AR) in a short amount of time, there was no noticeable drop in accuracy.

 :headscratch:

Me thinks the author of that fallacy id not well versed in firearms.  For a round to "cook off", there needs to be thousands and thousands of rounds fired without hesitation so the heat is so hot that it ignites the powder in the cases.  A quick search on the matter and people will see that modern day powders, modern day steel quality, and modern day cooling effects have all but eliminated that once upon a time very rare occurrence of that happening.

Accuracy will degrade once a barrel gets hot, but were talking about an increase of a golf ball grouping to a racquetball grouping at 100 yards once the barrel gets real hot.  The chances of a semi-auto rifle getting that hot is slim and none because of mag changes, lack of enough ammo on the firer's person (8-12 30rd mags typically on an infantryman/rifleman), and fatigue of the trigger finger.  ;)  Seriously.  
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #102 on: December 21, 2012, 09:22:41 AM »
I'm slightly worried, having put several hundred rounds through one of my rifles (AR) in a short amount of time, there was no noticeable drop in accuracy.

 :headscratch:

Right.  Without a stock or handgaurd to rub against, the barrel harmonics should be unaltered.  In my limited sample size though, a hot barrel rubbing a stock does throw accuracy off, but it wouldn't matter inside of 50 yards.  You're still going to hit the target, just not exactly where you were intending.
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #103 on: December 21, 2012, 09:29:23 AM »
Off topic:  Maverick, when you were in Armor, did you ever have occasion to see or fire those little M16 shorty things that were in the early Bradleys?   The were full auto only short barrel no stock things in a ball swivel mount as I recall, and used to spraying infantry off of wingman Bradleys and the like I think.  Those always interested me, but you don't see them anymore.

We had some in our mech infantry unit armory.  They are basically a m16 pistol with a screw lock mount for the sides and ramp of the old m2a1 series Bradleys.  The M2A2 series had a mount in the ramp as well.  They were full auto only at ~1200 rounds per minute rate.  They were a cool idea but basically useless.  When mounted in the vehicle, the recoil would be pretty reasonable but trying to hold one pulling the trigger was entertaining.  A lot of people who have not spent time with full auto really don't understand how ineffective it generally is.  For example, these things would empty a full 30 rd mag in about 1.5 seconds.  Count that out.  You pull the trigger and count one thousand one, one thous..  your empty.  Time to change the mag.  You spend more time changing mags that you do actually firing the weapon.  You would be much better off with semi or a much lower cyclic rate as by time you got control it would be locked back with an empty mag.  Full auto has it's uses in the right platform for specific tasks but those who just see movies and pass judgement based on fantasized depictions are in for a reality check.

As far as the "my gun is fine but there is no use for EBR's" arrogance.  Well, a tool is a tool and the AR series is so popular because you can build very capable and accurate weapons from the hundreds of options out there.  They are popular for a lot of very good reasons and belittling others because you made other choices is a function of your weakness not theirs.


Offline DEECONX

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Re: Gun sales today...pretty amazing...
« Reply #104 on: December 21, 2012, 09:42:06 AM »
Um.... What?...



Despite what you might think, putting a straight bore all the way through a barrel while keeping the barrel thickness on every side the same from start to finish is actually pretty hard, and in fact a lot of barrels will be a few thousandths off in some places. Now this isn't a problem with your typical hunting rifle or such but for something you'll be shooting a lot it will effect accuracy slightly in that when the barrel heats up, it will start to bend towards wherever there is less thickness.

Example about 3" from the muzzle my barrel is 7 thousandths thinner on one side than the other, when the barrel heats up it will bend towards the thin side of the barrel.


A great demo of this is chucking up a barrel in a lathe and heating it up with a torch for a second or two and watch as it bends on the lathe towards the thin side. Even better throw up a dial beside it (not too close to the torch!) and watch the dial go mad when the barrel is heated.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 09:44:23 AM by DEECONX »