how do you reverse or turn back quickly as you can?

[Badboy]

how much difference in speed between attacker and defender does this maneouvre needs?

The important thing is that you have enough separation to complete the maneuver outside of guns range.

And if the attacker will follow up the defender does it still works?

Yes, providing you have sufficient separation, but if the bandit begins to climb as well I would modify the split-S into a low slice to reduce altitude loss... you won't gain as much speed that way but your opponent climbed so they will be slower as well.

Remember, if you don't have enough range, then a pull up is probably the worst possible thing to do, it slows you down and allows the bandit to close on you more quickly and provides a bigger target. You will notice that in every post I have stressed the importance of having sufficient room, if you have any doubts don't do it, it is better to concede the energy than concede a gun shot.

Hope that helps...

Badboy

[Badboy]

Just an additional note here,

None of the information or maneuvers described in this thread is in any way new, or in any way unique to Aces High or any of its players and certainly can not be attributed to any of the players in the game.

Badboy

[Badboy]

Hi,

Just to clarify some of the terminology...



Hope that helps...

Badboy

[lulu]

I suspected that there were different types of  'split S' but how to do one or the others?

Just obesrving the attacker?
Or there are some detailed instructions?

 


P.S.
Beautifull picture.

[Badboy]

I suspected that there were different types of  'split S' but how to do one or the others?

The split-s is when you roll inverted and pull almost vertically down, each of the other directions have different names as shown on the diagram. You can learn a great deal on these boards by taking your time to read the messages here with care. Ideally cross referencing what the better players and the real world experts are saying, particularly those by Mace, whose posts greatly repay careful study.

Or there are some detailed instructions?

Each of them begin with an aileron roll followed by aft stick to increase the G. The reasons/benefits in each case was explained previously by Mace. The subtleties of each are best learned by practice. I recommend finding a buddy who wants to practice the same thing and taking them to the training/dueling arena to work on your reversals, do several each then change roles so that you get to see what it looks like from both sides, and talk to each other a lot. When something good happens share it. A simple training setup would be to start with them on your six and then practice your reversals. The main parameters to vary are the aircraft types and the initial speed and initial range. I suggest starting with what ever situation you find most difficult or interesting in the MA. You will learn far more quickly that way and hopefully you will have a lot of fun in the process...

Good luck with that.

Badboy

[Changeup]

Hi,

It depends on the circumstances, but the range needs to be enough that that you are confident there is plenty of room to complete the maneuver before you come back into guns range. This maneuver is a fairly lazy, energy conserving maneuver, if you are under any risk of being gunned before it is complete you shouldn't risk it. I find this is only worth trying if you can see the bandit isn't closing and you clearly have enough separation.

Exactly what range you need depends on the aircraft and if the bandit is closing or not and depends largely on your experience and judgement. The important thing is that if you have any doubts that you can complete this maneuver without risking a shot, you need to use one of the reversals described by Mace earlier that will get you around much quicker.

Badboy

QFT.  I suggested 1K so that gives him room to wiggle.  In most a/c, I use 800 but that's because I'm comfortable doing it and getting out of the problem I may have caused myself should I run into a vet that knows what I'm doing and he watched his E retention in the turn.  The good ones will counter by NOT following you up hard, but instead, stay at a 90 degree to your position and slow climb, convert their alt to E and hammer you.  For me, at 800, things happen too fast for most aggressive flyers to negotiate.  Once practiced for a good barrel roll, this maneuver is a deadly reversal, especially in a/c that accelerate/climb well.

[Changeup]

The split-s is when you roll inverted and pull almost vertically down, each of the other directions have different names as shown on the diagram. You can learn a great deal on these boards by taking your time to read the messages here with care. Ideally cross referencing what the better players and the real world experts are saying, particularly those by Mace, whose posts greatly repay careful study.

Each of them begin with an aileron roll followed by aft stick to increase the G. The reasons/benefits in each case was explained previously by Mace. The subtleties of each are best learned by practice. I recommend finding a buddy who wants to practice the same thing and taking them to the training/dueling arena to work on your reversals, do several each then change roles so that you get to see what it looks like from both sides, and talk to each other a lot. When something good happens share it. A simple training setup would be to start with them on your six and then practice your reversals. The main parameters to vary are the aircraft types and the initial speed and initial range. I suggest starting with what ever situation you find most difficult or interesting in the MA. You will learn far more quickly that way and hopefully you will have a lot of fun in the process...

Good luck with that.

Badboy

LULU...I'll be on tonight after 10PM EST.  Find me and I'll take you to the TA and show you what BadBoy's written if he isn't going to be on.  Just let me know.

[lulu]

Changeup,

I'm reading this now.

Sorry.

Ty for your proposal.

I think that tomorrow I will play at 10pm o'clock Italy time. (10pm est -> 10 - 7 -> 3am in Italy, if I guess)
If You want we can define a next day to meet in TA.


Badboy,
I had to think about these possibilities, but frrom the picture and from my toughts at first sight they seemed all vertical maneouvres. I was on the point of posting if they were performing by rolling a little lol.
However, I will grateful if You made a list of action to do those maneouvres in f4u and p51.


TY.

[Badboy]

However, I will grateful if You made a list of action to do those maneouvres in f4u and p51.

All except for the Immelmann you begin with an aileron roll to align your aircraft with the chosen direction for the reversal, say 45° for a high slice, 90° for a flat turn, 135° for the low slice and 180° for the split-s, and of course you can do it either left or right. Once your aircraft is aligned, use aft stick to increase the G and complete the turn, keeping the bandit in sight the whole time. The greater the separation when you begin, the more room you have for the the turn, and the less G you need to use. Never use any more G than necessary. The energy conserving reversal I mentioned only differs because you climb gently beforehand to gain the altitude you know you will lose in the split-s.

As mentioned previously, the subtleties need to be worked out in the air and I see you have received an offer to do exactly that... Have fun with it!

Hope that helps...

Badboy

[lulu]

Hi,

Just roll and pull, no rudder or just a bit of rudder to coordinate?


 

[Mace2004]

Hi,

Just roll and pull, no rudder or just a bit of rudder to coordinate?


 

If you're at slow speed and/or your airplane has a poor roll rate you can use a bit of rudder to help initiate the roll.  For the most part, AH planes don't really need lots of rudder work to fly coordinated turns but some rudder can really be helpful in getting you going in the right direction.

[Mace2004]

BTW, thanks for the outstanding diagrams Badboy, helpful and descriptive as always!   

Just for clarity, we typically describe these turns as vertical, horizontal, or oblique.   For the oblique turns we used more descriptive terms when they were being applied to a reversal.  Your "high slice" we would call a pitchback and the "low slice" was just a slice or slicing turn. Differentiating them made it much clearer in the air in case someone missed the high or low call.

[Badboy]

Differentiating them made it much clearer in the air in case someone missed the high or low call.

Makes perfect sense, thanks.

The diagram has been updated to reflect that terminology.

Regards

Badboy

(Edit: Use CTRL F5  in explorer to refresh your browser for the new image)

[uptown]

and all this time i thought alt/r was for reverse. no wonder they keep killing me in there 

[lulu]

You wrong,

alt/r is for super-wep.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzhOCtryc2o