ENY-system suggestion

[Wmaker]

I would like to propose a new ENY-system which would be based on popularity/usage of an AH-unit in question and which would be updated per tour basis to reflect the changes in the AH units' usage over time.

As an example, for fighters in the LWMA the system could work like this:

The non-perked fighters would be arranged from most used to least used by kills + deaths + number_of_sorties = usage. This is just an example. It could be based on # of sorties alone as well but I'd think the above work pretty well overall. This system would then be applied individually to different unit classes (fighters, bombers, gvs).

The most used fighter could for example have the lowest current ENY of 5 and from there on every fighter would have a positive integer ENY number in steps of 1 so that currently the least used fighter would have an ENY of 66. This would obviously mean that there would be 21 fighters that could get more perks for killing the most used fighter than what is currently possible at whatever perk multiplier. Some could see this as a problem but I think it would be a good encouragement for flying those fighters that aren't getting much use currently and could therefore bring more variety to the arenas. If this is thought to be too extreme, the starting (lowest) ENY value could be brought up by couple of notches and that would bring the max. perks earned per unit down.

For bombers and GVs (and fighter planesets in other arenas than the LWMA), the lowest ENY and the size of the step between units could be adjusted accordingly to achieve playable rewards in terms of perks.

Perked units would of course have to be an exception to this because their effectiveness can't be gauged through usage as their use is limited through perk system. ENYs of the perked units could for example be as they are now, the smallest value which is in use at any given arena for any given set of units.

This type of system would remove a lot of the subjectiveness from the ENY-system and would hopefully make discussion of the ENY a lot more logical and sensible. Currently, opinions regarding the ENYs of individual units are just that, opinions and we know what they say about opinions. Usage based, monthly updating system would take a lot of that subjectiveness out and would auto-adjust with the changes in usage which occur because of various reasons.

The obvious down side I see in this is the workload it takes to implement and maintain it. That is something which is difficult to gauge for me but I hope/think it would/could be worth while.


Any constructive thoughts, suggestions and comments are welcome.

[The Fugitive]

It seems to me that your just looking for more perks. Knowing you and how long you have been around I know you must have a couple million perks by now, but that is what it seems this system is set up to do. The ENY system we have now IS set up but usage/popularity, as well as a few other factors.

ENY is also used to restrict the team with the larger population. How would that factor in to the whole idea? If the ENY numbers assigned to planes are too close The plane you select in the hanger may not be available when you get to the tower if the population number are fluctuating. So you add "spacing" to do away with that problem and your now grouping planes again much like they are now. So why change?

It seems you have an issue categorizing the planes by ENY. Some of the numbers just don't fit, or make sense. Changing them due to "usage" alone especially every month would be a nightmare. I'm sure Lusche has some chart showing that the usage doesn't really jump around that much, but even minor changes will get people complaining "Well that one was a 5 last month!!! Why isn't it a 5 this month?". The community doesn't accept change well, and on top of that all the coading to rework the system, just so you can sleep better knowing the number make sense.

I don't see any real problems with the ENY system. I fly what I want when I want. If ENY should restrict me I just fly a different plane. Like you I have a ton of perks, so I never worry about "farming" them. As for the rest of the community, the only thing that will get most people out of the late war monsters is if they are removed. The majority of the players today play to win the war, any way they can. In most cases that is with the biggest baddest equipment they can get.   

[Wmaker]

It seems to me that your just looking for more perks.

How exactly would this produce more perks for me? Id like to hear your arguments as to why you think so? I wonder if I'm going to hear them.

...but that is what it seems this system is set up to do.

Again, based on what exactly? Please explain.

The ENY system we have now IS set up but usage/popularity, as well as a few other factors.

Yes, I just consider like many others that there are anomalies in the system in terms of values of individual units. But just like any one else's opinions on that are just opinions. Factoring in the actual popularity of an unit would remove a lot the subjectiveness from the system. I've already explained all this on my original post.

ENY is also used to restrict the team with the larger population. How would that factor in to the whole idea?

It would work exactly the same way as it does now. Of course limits where eny limitations kick in would have to be adjusted accordingly but the basic principle would remain the same.

If the ENY numbers assigned to planes are too close The plane you select in the hanger may not be available when you get to the tower if the population number are fluctuating. So you add "spacing" to do away with that problem and your now grouping planes again much like they are now. So why change?

That is exactly how it works already. The plane you just flew might not be available anymore. I don't see any problem with it. If the ENY-limit is near some plane's ENY value and your country's population increases the plane becomes unavailable. It works that way currently and it would work that way in this system.

It seems you have an issue categorizing the planes by ENY.

What do you base this on?

Some of the numbers just don't fit, or make sense. Changing them due to "usage" alone especially every month would be a nightmare.

I guess I have bit more faith in HTC than you. They have an excellent automatic scoring up and running.

but even minor changes will get people complaining "Well that one was a 5 last month!!! Why isn't it a 5 this month?". The community doesn't accept change well, and on top of that all the coading to rework the system, just so you can sleep better knowing the number make sense.

People whine, that is fact of life. Some whine no matter what. The system I propose would effectively be a democracy that leaves very little room for whining. All people could blame is each other for flying what they do and that is already the case so doesn't really see the problem.

top of that all the coading to rework the system, just so you can sleep better knowing the number make sense.

I sleep just fine, thank you. I've explained the reasons why I proposed this. I suggest you keep your commenting on the merits (or the lack of) of the idea itself.

As for the rest of the community, the only thing that will get most people out of the late war monsters is if they are removed. The majority of the players today play to win the war, any way they can. In most cases that is with the biggest baddest equipment they can get.    

I agree that the numbers of less performing fighters most probably wouldn't rise significantly but I would be hopeful and hope for even a little increase in usage.

[The Fugitive]

WOW! defensive much?

As for thinking your looking for perks, you said....

" This would obviously mean that there would be 21 fighters that could get more perks for killing the most used fighter than what is currently possible at whatever perk multiplier"

Had you read and understood what I said, I know your NOT looking for perks as Im sure you have a ton, so why are you really looking for a change?

As I said, you have an issue categorizing ENY in your mind, you said....

"Yes, I just consider like many others that there are anomalies in the system in terms of values of individual units. But just like any one else's opinions on that are just opinions."

So it is a problem YOUR having. In the minds of the creators/programmers there are no problems and ENY works and is adjusted fine. I guess you don't have as much faith in HTC as you said or you could accept ENY for what it is and the way it is. The only reason you want a change to ENY is so it makes more sense to you in the value attached to each plane or vehicle.

Personally I don't see any problems with ENY. It doesn't have to make sense to me in the way it works, as long as it works. Your "system" won't change "how" it works so why bother changing it? All your system will do is organize the ENY in a way that makes sense to us laymans. It already makes sense to those who run the show and thats good enough to me.

[Wmaker]

WOW! defensive much?

Not really. Just a bit miffed when the first sentence of a first reply suggests that I'm of course looking for some personal gain. Seems be the MO of a small clique on this Wish list forum to present such suspicions rather frequently to say the least.

Had you read and understood what I said, I know your NOT looking for perks as Im sure you have a ton, so why are you really looking for a change?

I understand just fine. First sentences from your reply: "It seems to me that your just looking for more perks. Knowing you and how long you have been around I know you must have a couple million perks by now, but that is what it seems this system is set up to do."

I'm still interested in knowing why do you think this system would bring "more perks" for me or more perks in general. You said it seems to be setup that way. Since you think so, I'm sure you can explain to me why you think that is. For the record, I don't have thousands of perks as I do have drunken 262-addiction. There. Now you have even a motive. So why would this system bring more perks for me?

As I don't have access to the sortie data I can't say exactly into what order the planes would go. I'm sure the kill/death figures correlate well with the sortie figures though. Based on that and considering the planes I usually fly, I'm guessing there would be a small drop on average perks per sortie or it would stay more or less the same.

In the minds of the creators/programmers there are no problems and ENY works and is adjusted fine. I guess you don't have as much faith in HTC as you said or you could accept ENY for what it is and the way it is. The only reason you want a change to ENY is so it makes more sense to you in the value attached to each plane or vehicle.

AH is a work in progress and that is a good thing. It wouldn't be the first change HTC makes to an existing system or changes something based on a suggestion from the player base.

[Karnak]

I think the metric used would need to be more refined with K/T added for fighters and perhaps tanks while bombers would need damage/sortie and damage/time added in.  There are also units that fall outside of probable metrics and would need their ENY's locked, things like the Fi156 and transports.

[Wmaker]

I think the metric used would need to be more refined with K/T added for fighters and perhaps tanks while bombers would need damage/sortie and damage/time added in.  There are also units that fall outside of probable metrics and would need their ENY's locked, things like the Fi156 and transports.

Thanks for your input!

I think the kills per time for fighters is factored in in the total kills per tour. I thought about damage per sortie for the bombers especially but then thought that the amount of sorties would tell enough of the bombers performance but it certainly wouldn't be a bad idea to include damage per sortie for bombers and GVs. Because I don't have the faintest clue about the magnitude of damage points per tour for any of these units it's hard think what the multiplier for them should be so that they would correlate well with kills/deaths, probably somewhere around 0,01. Well, HTC has that data. As far as Fi-156 and transports go, sure the ENY could be locked but I don't see why this system couldn't work for them as is. I wouldn't mind if the number of sorties would make a Goon semi-valuable target for example.

[Karnak]

The ENY values would need to be locked so that a side didn't find itself potentially ENY limited out of having transports or Fi156s.

[Wmaker]

The ENY values would need to be locked so that a side didn't find itself potentially ENY limited out of having transports or Fi156s.

Agreed. Good point.

I've been a victim of the ENY-limiter so rarely.

[The Fugitive]

Not really. Just a bit miffed when the first sentence of a first reply suggests that I'm of course looking for some personal gain. Seems be the MO of a small clique on this Wish list forum to present such suspicions rather frequently to say the least.


I understand just fine. First sentences from your reply: "It seems to me that your just looking for more perks. Knowing you and how long you have been around I know you must have a couple million perks by now, but that is what it seems this system is set up to do."

I'm still interested in knowing why do you think this system would bring "more perks" for me or more perks in general. You said it seems to be setup that way. Since you think so, I'm sure you can explain to me why you think that is. For the record, I don't have thousands of perks as I do have drunken 262-addiction. There. Now you have even a motive. So why would this system bring more perks for me?

As I don't have access to the sortie data I can't say exactly into what order the planes would go. I'm sure the kill/death figures correlate well with the sortie figures though. Based on that and considering the planes I usually fly, I'm guessing there would be a small drop on average perks per sortie or it would stay more or less the same.


AH is a work in progress and that is a good thing. It wouldn't be the first change HTC makes to an existing system or changes something based on a suggestion from the player base.

in response to the "perk" idea, I again point out what you said....

This would obviously mean that there would be 21 fighters that could get more perks for killing the most used fighter than what is currently possible at whatever perk multiplier

You typed it, I didn't. Then again I pointed out why would you be worried about perks? hence the "you must have a million of them" comment. so it is NOT for perks you are looking for....as I have already said a number of times.

And AGAIN, all your system would do is to be for you to be able to point at a plane and say "This is way it is perked as it is". It seems you and a few others are frustrated by the fact the HTC won't give up the info on the "hows and whys" of the ENY system they have in place.

Changing the system so that you are more comfortable with the "whys" of the ENY system isn't necessarily a good way to go as it seems HTC is comfortable with how the system is set-up.

However, as it is a wish list, wish away. Good Luck.

[Wmaker]

You typed it, I didn't. Then again I pointed out why would you be worried about perks? hence the "you must have a million of them" comment. so it is NOT for perks you are looking for....as I have already said a number of times.

Your reply's very first sentence said that I was looking for more perks, that is a fact no matter how much you try to spin it. Of course you don't want to tell as to why you think so because you don't have an argument to tell.

As to my statement here: This would obviously mean that there would be 21 fighters that could get more perks for killing the most used fighter than what is currently possible at whatever perk multiplier

I also said:

Some could see this as a problem but I think it would be a good encouragement for flying those fighters that aren't getting much use currently and could therefore bring more variety to the arenas. If this is thought to be too extreme, the starting (lowest) ENY value could be brought up by couple of notches and that would bring the max. perks earned per unit down.

I guess you didn't read or understand the above.

"This is way it is perked as it is"

[Chalenge]

I am against it altogether based on your trying to control what I can fly based on how many other users make the same choice.

I dont think you are trying to get control of perks, but I do think you are trying to control the types opposing your Brew. You made the choice to fly it. Get over it already.

[Delirium]

What would you do about aircraft that are flown by very few skilled sticks and those that are not? For example, this plan would immediately lower the P38J (K/D 1.63 for 2011) and raise the ENY on the P38L (K/D 0.68 in 2011, even C202/205 did better) to above 20.

I'm all in favor of increasing the diversity of aircraft in the arena, but I'm not sure this is going to do anything but make customers angry.

[FLS]

I assume the ENY system is based on aircraft performance so you may disagree with the values but it's based on quantifiable criteria. I don't see how subjectivity in discussions about it negatively affect the game so I don't see what this change would do to improve the game.  

The most popular aircraft continues to be the P-51 I believe, which already has an ENY of 5.  What do you think the practical effect of this change would be on game play?

[Karnak]

I am against it altogether based on your trying to control what I can fly based on how many other users make the same choice.

I dont think you are trying to get control of perks, but I do think you are trying to control the types opposing your Brew. You made the choice to fly it. Get over it already.

His proposal would have no effect at all on your P-51D as compared to the status quo, its ENY would remain at 5.  How is that controlling what you can fly?