ENY-system suggestion

[SmokinLoon]

HTC's ENY and OBJ system makes me do this:      But not really.    Some things they have dead on (B29, C47, King Tiger), other things they have off  such as the Ju88's OBJ score being WORSE than a B17, the Pzr IV F having the same ENY and OBJ as the SdKfz 251.  I would think HTC would want the 251 used against towns more often so why not give it a boost in that area???  There are a number of planes that make a person go     when it comes to ENY and OBJ scores.

HTC's system also makes baby jesus cry.    

 

[Chalenge]

His proposal would have no effect at all on your P-51D as compared to the status quo, its ENY would remain at 5.  How is that controlling what you can fly?

You are thinking only from the mindset of me in a P-51D, which is not the only aircraft I fly nor am I the only customer that flies. What he is suggesting would be a nightmare to those of us that fly here consistently while the noobs come and go trying to fly the latest "KING" airplane. If the ENY is adjusted at all by the statistics of most popular airplane then that change should come over very long periods of time and through very modest adjustments, which is something I thought HTC was already doing. Pretty much I think that any airplane that is EASY to fly and get kills in should have a low ENY number (5-8) and the harder airplanes should have higher numbers, which is more or less what we have. Noobs see people landing big kill counts in the 109K4 and they think it is an easy airplane to score with. If that fad was a constant and the popularity of the aircraft was accounted for over a short time span then it might suddenly have an ENY of 5 and it would be denied to players almost immediately as the ENY rose.

No worries though as I know Hitech can see right through this request.

[Wmaker]

You are thinking only from the mindset of me in a P-51D,

It is rather ironic that you say the above to Karnak and just before that you say the below to me...

I do think you are trying to control the types opposing your Brew. You made the choice to fly it. Get over it already.

LOL!

Btw, I fly other types as well and considering Brewster's current ENY, it would stay roughly where it is now. Maybe you should have checked where Brewster lies regarding kills/deaths and what is its ENY before you started talking your (usual) nonsense? The Dora which I also fly a lot would most likely get a significant drop in ENY. If anything this change wouldn't increase my "perk income", it would clearly lower it. The aircraft that would benefit from my proposed values would be P-40s, Spit I, I-16 and the like. I truly cannot see anything wrong with that. But like I said in my original post if that sounds too radical all one has to do is tweak the lowest ENY value and the "perk reward spread would become closer to the current system.

Get over it already.

...and what exactly I haven't gotten over? This has nothing to do what I fly or what you fly either.

[Wmaker]

What would you do about aircraft that are flown by very few skilled sticks and those that are not? For example, this plan would immediately lower the P38J (K/D 1.63 for 2011) and raise the ENY on the P38L (K/D 0.68 in 2011, even C202/205 did better) to above 20.

K/Ds have nothing to do with my proposition. Based only on kill+deaths of the last tour (# of sorties could change it slightly) P-38L's ENY would get decreased, not raised. P-38J's ENY would lower from 20 to 16 based on a quick look.

-----------------

As a general comment...

There's really no point in getting hung up on what happens to a single plane's ENY because other planes' ENY's affect on the actual perk reward received and the change would be global.

I assume the ENY system is based on aircraft performance so you may disagree with the values but it's based on quantifiable criteria.

Performance in general is very subjective considering how much different variables performance entails.

I don't see how subjectivity in discussions about it negatively affect the game so I don't see what this change would do to improve the game.

I don't think ENY discussion affect negatively to the game either, I just think they are rather futile.

The most popular aircraft continues to be the P-51 I believe, which already has an ENY of 5.  What do you think the practical effect of this change would be on game play?

The practical effects on game play would be very very small I would think.  It would just give bigger rewards to aircraft which currently have somewhat low ENY but aren't really very popular and to those planes that are truly on the bottom of the barrel. This would give a change for more variety. I do realize and agree that it is very hard to get people out of the popular late war rides but again, I really don't see it as a bad thing if kills flying those bottom barrel planes would give bigger rewards.

[The Fugitive]

K/Ds have nothing to do with my proposition. Based only on kill+deaths of the last tour (# of sorties could change it slightly) P-38L's ENY would get decreased, not raised. P-38J's ENY would lower from 20 to 16 based on a quick look.

-----------------

As a general comment...

There's really no point in getting hung up on what happens to a single plane's ENY because other planes' ENY's affect on the actual perk reward received and the change would be global.


Performance in general is very subjective considering how much different variables performance entails.


I don't think ENY discussion affect negatively to the game either, I just think they are rather futile.


The practical effects on game play would be very very small I would think.  It would just give bigger rewards to aircraft which currently have somewhat low ENY but aren't really very popular and to those planes that are truly on the bottom of the barrel. This would give a change for more variety. I do realize and agree that it is very hard to get people out of the popular late war rides but again, I really don't see it as a bad thing if kills flying those bottom barrel planes would give bigger rewards.

    I guess it IS all about perks! 

[Karnak]

    I guess it IS all about perks! 

Of course it is, but not really his perk points as he doesn't fly those aircraft.  He is, essentially, suggesting the highest ENY be raised from 40 to 65 and each aircraft's ENY be readjusted within that larger spectrum so as to increase the rewards for downing a Spitfire Mk XVI while flying a Spitfire Mk I from 8 to 10.5 or so.

[The Fugitive]

Of course it is, but not really his perk points as he doesn't fly those aircraft.  He is, essentially, suggesting the highest ENY be raised from 40 to 65 and each aircraft's ENY be readjusted within that larger spectrum so as to increase the rewards for downing a Spitfire Mk XVI while flying a Spitfire Mk I from 8 to 10.5 or so.

So the satisfaction and thrill of downing a Spit XVI with a Spit I isn't enough with the perk value you get now, but an extra 2.5 would do it, right? 

Yup, lets change things just for the sake of change. After all HTC doesn't have anything else on their plate right now, and this will certainly bring a lot of new subscriptions.

[Wmaker]

Yup, lets change things just for the sake of change.

...or object for the sake of objecting even when you have no proper arguments to object with?

[Wmaker]

Of course it is, but not really his perk points as he doesn't fly those aircraft.  He is, essentially, suggesting the highest ENY be raised from 40 to 65 and each aircraft's ENY be readjusted within that larger spectrum so as to increase the rewards for downing a Spitfire Mk XVI while flying a Spitfire Mk I from 8 to 10.5 or so.

Karnak is correct here, although even if I think less used planes could be rewarded better they don't necessarily have to be in this proposition of mine. That really isn't even the main point of the whole deal. I know you understand what I'm saying Karnak, so this isn't directed at you. All one has to do is to raise the highest ENY from say from 5 to 8 and the maximum points reward would very close to where it is know.

Example (assuming perk multiplier of 1):

Max. reward currently: 40/5= 8

Max. reward using my system with a starting ENY of 5: 66/5=13.2

Max. reward using my system with a starting ENY of 8: 69/8=8.63


I truly, truly can't see anything but positive if the use of less used planes would be encouraged more than it is currently. More variety will create a more dynamic and interesting combat environment. But again, that isn't even the main point of my suggestion which is to provide ENY-values that reacts to the usage habits of AH units and overall promotes variety.


Here's how it would look for LWMA fighters using Tour 155's kill/death numbers. I'm sure there are a few fighters there that will have ENY values that will raise eye brows but it is good to remember that because the change is global the imagined opponent's value has also changed. What is also good to remember is that the system would self adjust on monthly basis. And once again, by changing the lowest value the maximum possible reward can be adjusted.



(Delirium, in my quick look I looked at kills only, with the deaths added the ENY of the P-38J would actually get raised, not lowered.)

 

[kilo2]

-1

[Lusche]

The system seems to concentrate on 'usage' and doesn't really reflect the other factors that go into ENY and what other applications ENY does have.
Another example:  CV planes get a lot of kills and deaths because they are the only ones available from CVs, and their flight times are much shorter before they kill or being killed.

I don't have the time to get into more details, so for the moment just a big


-1


from me.

Not that it would matter

[The Fugitive]

I truly, truly can't see anything but positive if the use of less used planes would be encouraged more than it is currently. More variety will create a more dynamic and interesting combat environment. But again, that isn't even the main point of my suggestion which is to provide ENY-values that reacts to the usage habits of AH units and overall promotes variety.

 

...and after being here as long as you have how can you think/believe that any of this is going to increase the use of the "less used planes"?

The only time an early war plane is really used is when it is first introduced. With in a week it becomes another one of those "less used planes". Why, not because you can get a bunch of perks/points for killing in it, as you already can   It's because it can't keep up with or carry enough bombs like the other late war monsters we have.

The only way your going to get the masses into an early war bird is to limit the availability of the late war monsters and we all know HTC is NEVER about limiting anything. You can triple the points/perks and it won't change the usage enough to notice.... well Lusche may see a difference. The masses want the fastest planes, with the biggest guns, that can drop a town the quickest.

[Vinkman]

Wmaker,
I do like the objective of getting more variety out there. I'm trying to figure out, by working through a scinario in my mind if this new ENY calculation would do that.  ENY and the PERK system is already there to encourge people to fly older, less capable rides, but most fly the low eny planes anyway because getting kills, and not dying, trumps perks. If your system were implimented would it just make for situations where the Brewster would end up with an ENY of 5? Also the Pony or Spit 16 would end up at 20, or 30. Then everyone would flock to them, until it evened out. But other then you, would low eny drive more Brewster users? If the perks generated by ENY differential drew use of low ENY planes, than the current system is the most incentive that could be created. a system based on use, could only predocude an outcome where more low ENY planes ended up with high ENY numbers, and hgih ENY numbers ended up with low ones. The first case would crete a rush to those planes (who doesn;t want to ring up perks in a 40 ENY Pony D) and latter case would cause people to stay away from a 5 ENY P-39.

Am I understanding it correctly? 

[Brakechk]

HTC's system also makes baby jesus cry.    

 

That's 'cause he ain't wearing his tuxedo t-shirt!

I like the ENY system as it stands.  I don't think messing with it will change what people fly unless something is eny-limited so they don't have it available.  This doesn't happen much...but I usu fly rides with eny's of 20ish.  It may be that I just don't notice it. 

It seems to me that the only issue with ENY is more along the lines of disagreement on what that subjectively assigned value should be for a particular plane.  Since it's subjective this is to be expected.  I think it would be very hard to come up with a system that would be more objective or fact based since as I understand it the reason for the system is to help balance plane usage.  This to me means that it has to be adjusted with other things in mind other that top speed, gun package or turning ability to mention a few.  It's more of a total package consideration and involves alot of elements.  That's how I see it anyway...not saying there isn't a way to do it better, or that people shouldn't keep tossing ideas around. It's just gonna be hard to improve on the system as it stands I think.   

[FLS]

I understand the wish for diversity but this seems more like hoping for that result rather than creating it.