Author Topic: Rash of 109s and 190s  (Read 4963 times)

Offline Randy1

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Rash of 109s and 190s
« on: February 15, 2013, 07:56:11 AM »
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s.  They seem to be everywhere and in large, high packs as well as the usual vulture role.  There was a long thread on 109, 190 pouching not long ago but it seems worse in the last couple of weeks.

I have had to leave the P47 and P38 ranks and go to a P51 for survival.  Yes i do use the speed to escape and gain E back before I return but a guy has to do what a guy has to do to stay in the game.  I know their are squadrons of 109s and 190s but with the other independents the numbers seem higher.

I would suggest a more complicated control of the different planes and their models.  If the number of the different planes by year as an example are available then use that to limit the planes available.  It might be even adjusted by map.  Since the late war arena is so dominant, then subdivide the maps into early, late war and end of war.  As an example say the number of P51Ds was 20% of the total planes for a given year and I come in the MA and want a P51D or a late model 109.  When I choose it I get a message saying choose another model or plane since the maximum planes number has been exceeded but check back latter.  Albeit late model squadrons in this example might be a problem if all members could not get that model.

The numbers control system has big holes in it for sure but the competitive nature of the simulation will push more and more people to get the better planes to stay in the game.  I know those dedicated to like the P38 will never change and some are good enough to beat off any challenge but for the average Joe or Betty, a better end of the war plane may be answer that more and more people choose.

As a new guy, this opinion has limited expertise to back it up so I will not be offended at all if y'all say I am wrong in my observations and solutions.

Offline Stampf

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2013, 08:18:05 AM »

 :lol

Beer.

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Offline Triton28

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 08:20:23 AM »
Fly the 109's and 190's a bit.  This should at least give you some ideas as to how best to kill them.

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Offline Hajo

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 08:32:31 AM »
They are both excellent fighters one should see a lot of them.  What's not to like about them?

In the game the 190 is used because of its guns speed, and roll rate, 109 for its' vertical abilities.

In game ...I may be behind the pulse of the game the K4 is the favorite I believe of the Luftwaffe planes.

Allied Pilots however considered the 190 the most dangerous of the two.  Big difference between

the game and actual combat flying during WWII.  We pay no penalties here.  Pilots did then.
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Offline Brakechk

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 08:32:44 AM »
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s.  They seem to be everywhere and in large, high packs as well as the usual vulture role.  There was a long thread on 109, 190 pouching not long ago but it seems worse in the last couple of weeks.

I have had to leave the P47 and P38 ranks and go to a P51 for survival.  Yes i do use the speed to escape and gain E back before I return but a guy has to do what a guy has to do to stay in the game.  I know their are squadrons of 109s and 190s but with the other independents the numbers seem higher.

I would suggest a more complicated control of the different planes and their models.  If the number of the different planes by year as an example are available then use that to limit the planes available.  It might be even adjusted by map.  Since the late war arena is so dominant, then subdivide the maps into early, late war and end of war.  As an example say the number of P51Ds was 20% of the total planes for a given year and I come in the MA and want a P51D or a late model 109.  When I choose it I get a message saying choose another model or plane since the maximum planes number has been exceeded but check back latter.  Albeit late model squadrons in this example might be a problem if all members could not get that model.

The numbers control system has big holes in it for sure but the competitive nature of the simulation will push more and more people to get the better planes to stay in the game.  I know those dedicated to like the P38 will never change and some are good enough to beat off any challenge but for the average Joe or Betty, a better end of the war plane may be answer that more and more people choose.

As a new guy, this opinion has limited expertise to back it up so I will not be offended at all if y'all say I am wrong in my observations and solutions.

Don't take this wrong...or as the usual beatdown of an idea however:  The big problem with limiting plane types in the MA, especially in regard to popular types is that you limit the availability of plane types.  Sounds circular but the issue is that people play the game in order to fly a certain type of plane many times.  If you take that away and especially so with popular planes (190, 51, 109, Spitfire, F4U etc.) then you take away one of the big draws to the game.  This applies to a specific varient of a particular plane as much as the general type of plane.

There have always been and will always be certain plane types that are popular.  Spitfires, 190s and 51's for example are always popular and flown a great deal.  On the other hand some planes seem to go in cycles of popularity.  When I last played (2006) Ki-84's were seen much but I loved it.  When I came back all the sudden I see Ki-84s much more frequently.  The 109's can sort of be put into this catagory or at least certain varients can be in this catagory.  I suspect there are any number of reasons but the result is they will be popular for a certain while then something else will take it's place and the numbers will drop to the core numbers.

We already have a mechanism for limiting plane available based on historical timesets within the war.  These arenas don't see anywhere near the numbers as the LWMA.  I think it's an all or nothing deal brought about by limited planesets.  So the plane set is limited so that players can't get what they want to fly.  The player goes elsewhere....which results in a population drop that just feeds on itself until the arena is mostly empty, most of the time.  So even if you were inclined to try the mid-war arena it doesn't appear at first glance to have any fights so you go the LWMA.  

The point is that limiting planesets in this manner (historical availability based on timeline) doesn't seem to work real well.  Most players seem to want to have a choice of all planes available in Aces High (as do I).  Limiting it in terms of numbers (i.e. 20 Mustangs avail. total) would result in at least some folks constantly rearming while flying incredibly timid.  Even worse what's to keep them from logging on and just sitting somewhere out of the way while they are afk for an hour, thus denying others the usage for no good reason.  Perking certain planes is as close as you're gonna get.

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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 08:58:42 AM »
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 09:44:31 AM »
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s.  They seem to be everywhere and in large, high packs as well as the usual vulture role.  There was a long thread on 109, 190 pouching not long ago but it seems worse in the last couple of weeks.

I have had to leave the P47 and P38 ranks and go to a P51 for survival.  Yes i do use the speed to escape and gain E back before I return but a guy has to do what a guy has to do to stay in the game.  I know their are squadrons of 109s and 190s but with the other independents the numbers seem higher.

I would suggest a more complicated control of the different planes and their models.  If the number of the different planes by year as an example are available then use that to limit the planes available.  It might be even adjusted by map.  Since the late war arena is so dominant, then subdivide the maps into early, late war and end of war.  As an example say the number of P51Ds was 20% of the total planes for a given year and I come in the MA and want a P51D or a late model 109.  When I choose it I get a message saying choose another model or plane since the maximum planes number has been exceeded but check back latter.  Albeit late model squadrons in this example might be a problem if all members could not get that model.

The numbers control system has big holes in it for sure but the competitive nature of the simulation will push more and more people to get the better planes to stay in the game.  I know those dedicated to like the P38 will never change and some are good enough to beat off any challenge but for the average Joe or Betty, a better end of the war plane may be answer that more and more people choose.

As a new guy, this opinion has limited expertise to back it up so I will not be offended at all if y'all say I am wrong in my observations and solutions.

Awwww Randy, you were doing so good, and then this! Short answer is don't worry about what other people fly, just learn to shoot them down!

Limiting planes is always a touchy subject. As stated, people play the game to fly the plane they like. Bruv fly's the spit because he likes it, not because its an easy plane to fly  :devil Twinboom, Delirium, and AKAK fly the 38 not because it's easyer/hearder (depending on who you ask) to fly but because it's the plane they like to fly (oh and all of those guys have no problems dropping 190s and 109s).

It seems you have reached one of those "plateaus" everyone reaches now and then. Soon you'll find that little bit of timing, or awareness to push you to the next stage where a question like this one becomes nothing at all.

Offline Krusty

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 10:35:07 AM »
190s and 109s have ALWAYS been very common in the MAs. Always. They are popular rides. You're only just now taking notice of them, is all. They've always been there. They haven't had a surge in use is my guess.

190s aren't a problem, really. Only the dora is fast enough to run down most planes. Their maneuverability is really such that most pilots can't kill you once they catch you in one. You can handily beat them in most cases. 109s are the more common. They have enough speed and the modest maneuverability to dispatch you once they chase you down. However, only the K-4 is the real runner. The G-14s are pretty fast too, but still not the runners that most late war planes are.

The thing about 109s is that the faster they are, the worse their flat turning can be. They have the engine power to go vertical, but because of this they can be beaten with the right tactics.

They're hardly as easy-mode as... say... spit16 hordes. Or the La7 hordes of years gone by.

Offline Lusche

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 11:05:22 AM »
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s.  .


The FIGHTER USAGE (kill+deaths) share of all 109's and 190's (including Ta 152H) compared to the P-51D alone. Keep in mind the current tour is only halfway through.



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Offline shiv

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 11:13:50 AM »
It seems like after all the posts that beat down the P51 laying claim it was a runner's plane there is a new surge in 109s and 190s. 

It has been said that most of the players in the arena do not read the forums. I do not have any stats to back this up.



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Offline Drano

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2013, 11:17:09 AM »
I have had to leave the xxxxxx and P38 ranks and go to a P51 for survival. 

Poppycock!
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2013, 11:33:49 AM »
I sure cannot argue with any of the replies.  Could well be a coincidence on the time I selected to fly and the home base choice of the last few days that a lot of 109s and 190s were trying to or had establish fighter caps.  

I hope this was not seen as a whine Fugative but more of an observation that is somewhat bore out by Lusche numbers albeit my case, using his numbers, is still weak.

 :joystick: I think my biggest problem is I am addicted to furballs and I like the planes not best suited for that type of fight so any diving planes from above makes furballing that much harder. :bhead

Thanks for the replies.  Lusche special thanks for the numbers.



Offline Stampf

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2013, 12:03:25 PM »

I'm sure Lusche could demonstrate that the small increase in 109 usage for Feb. is almost exclusively in the 109F-4.

Guys are getting ready for the Malta Scenario in March.

Canukk alone...who almost always flys the 190 has 240 plus victories late war already this month in the 109F.  He's everywhere in it... :lol



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Offline Lusche

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 12:11:57 PM »
I'm sure Lusche could demonstrate that the small increase in 109 usage for Feb. is almost exclusively in the 109F-4.


The 109F had a very notable increase indeed (+44% realatively to January) , but in absolut numbers the 109K had about the same increase.
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Offline Stampf

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Re: Rash of 109s and 190s
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 12:15:20 PM »

The 109F had a very notable increase indeed (+44% realatively to January) , but in absolut numbers the 109K had about the same increase.

 :aok

8 minutes...a snails pace!

K-4 increasing... gotta be the sexy factor.

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