He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!

[macleod01]

I forgot the 2x torps as well.

So yes, very flexible. But the question remains

Will she do for the BoB scenario or not? I know Lusches post shows she climbs like a elephant that is carrying a house stuck in wet concrete, but is that consistant with BoB speed as well?

[save]

well the gondola 20mm is as good as useless in the gondola, giving you the FOV of a tank driver position

[Wmaker]

They added the rather rare and field-mod nose 20mm option? Why?

Seems to pander a bit to the "I want" crowd despite past HTC policies.

MG-FF in glass nose of the He111 is just another Rüstsatz. It's not some one-off field mod done by a certain unit. It is a factory produced kit and that's the reason why the installations all look the same for example when looking at the photos. Rüstsatzes could be at times installed at the factory and there are several sources mentioning that H-6 variants left the factory with the MG-FF cannon in the nose (there were also H-6s which had the machine gun).

Considering how much photographic evidence of its use can be found, it definately deserved to be included.

[Squire]

Will she do for the BoB scenario or not?

Will work just fine.

[Baumer]

These were ordered from a high ranking General, assembled at factories and then shipped to squadrons for use.

So, you're implying something inaccurate on both accounts.

As usual you mix part truth with part wishful thinking.

With regard to P-51 hood, it was indeed designed by NAA engineers but it was a purpose built field modification package to be installed at the depot or forward area, hence a "Field Mod".

In regard to your position on the B-25 you are once again mixing fact with your opinion. The gunship concept was indeed driven by Gen. Kenny and working with NAA reps in the field, they modified the B-25C's to do the job. The B-25c gun package with 4 guns in the nose was NEVER built in a factory. The early cheek gun packages were developed in the field and eventually brought back to the states for further evaluation. The early gun packs were NEVER installed at either the Los Angeles or Kansas City plant. All B-25C's were either modified in the field or in Australia for the 5th AF. I have done more than enough research to know I can back this up with HTC. I have more then enough evidence about the delivery of B-25's to prove my point.

[jimbo71]

Is it me or are the pilot / copilot of the HE111 extremely bummed out?     Somebody get these guys some Zoloft

[Karnak]

With regard to P-51 hood, it was indeed designed by NAA engineers but it was a purpose built field modification package to be installed at the depot or forward area, hence a "Field Mod".

That isn't what people mean when they say "field mod".  They mean stuff designed and implemented by the guys at the field.  Things like the B-17s with 20mm cannons in the tail.

Under your definition every Rüstsatzes kit would be considered a field modification.  Clipping or unclipping the wings of a Spitfire, or changing its guns on a 'universal' wing would also be a field mod by your definition.

The entire Sherman VC 'Firefly' would be a field mod.

[Raphael]

Is it me or are the pilot / copilot of the HE111 extremely bummed out?     Somebody get these guys some Zoloft

(Image removed from quote.)

Gunning ain't easy, man :/

[Krusty]

Baumer, you are the one twisting things here... Field mods at a depot level aren't field mods. Did you know that B-29s had to undergo over 50 "modifications" after leaving factories before they were even allowed to be distributed to squadrons? These are not "field mods." They are systematic changes done at a level above some average Joe in a squadron taking things into his own hands. Field mods are akin to P-38s carrying 6x50cal, or IL2s that had the aft fuselage carved out and a gunner stuck there when none was supposed to be there.

Wmaker, key words there are H-6. For an H-3 yes a MG/FF in the nose was a field mod. If they have given us an He-111 with torpedoes and an He-111 with a nose 20mm MG/FF gun, has anybody checked the specs on the engine power? It seems like they gave us a version very much post-dating the BOB which it was intended for in the first place. Given that the bombload includes a large selection of over-sized bombs up to and including the 1600kg, it seems like all the indicators point to a post-BOB H-6 model that shouldn't ever be used in the BOB scenario.

Now that I think about it, the fuel tanks in the bomb bays are signature of the H-5 and H-6 models. First introduced in the H-4, which was a short run leading up to the H-5 and mostly didn't see service in the BOB. It also had engines with between 140-200hp more (per engine) than the H-3 carried.

It seems HTC gave us an entirely inappropriate model for the BOB.

[Baumer]

That isn't what people mean when they say "field mod".  They mean stuff designed and implemented by the guys at the field.  Things like the B-17s with 20mm cannons in the tail.

Under your definition every Rüstsatzes kit would be considered a field modification.  Clipping or unclipping the wings of a Spitfire, or changing its guns on a 'universal' wing would also be a field mod by your definition.

The entire Sherman VC 'Firefly' would be a field mod.

Per numerous discussions with HTC that is correct, they should not be allowed, and HTC has used that argument to defend not allowing certain Rüstsatzes kits in the past.

All I am trying to say is that HTC has a lot of leeway in how they choose to implement their own rules. And they use that wiggle room when it suits their purposes, being generous in some aspects and not in others.

[Krusty]

A rutsatz does not a field mod make, HOWEVER, there are some that are rutsatz kits which NEVER saw use or service. Those would be a field mod.

Don't spin it Baumer. B-25 strafers and Malcolm Hoods are not field mods. Nor are 20mm gondolas on a Bf109.

[tuton25]

Who cares if the 20mm were a field modification....
stay behind it and you don't have to worry about it....

[MK-84]

Baumer, you are the one twisting things here... Field mods at a depot level aren't field mods. Did you know that B-29s had to undergo over 50 "modifications" after leaving factories before they were even allowed to be distributed to squadrons? These are not "field mods." They are systematic changes done at a level above some average Joe in a squadron taking things into his own hands. Field mods are akin to P-38s carrying 6x50cal, or IL2s that had the aft fuselage carved out and a gunner stuck there when none was supposed to be there.

Wmaker, key words there are H-6. For an H-3 yes a MG/FF in the nose was a field mod. If they have given us an He-111 with torpedoes and an He-111 with a nose 20mm MG/FF gun, has anybody checked the specs on the engine power? It seems like they gave us a version very much post-dating the BOB which it was intended for in the first place. Given that the bombload includes a large selection of over-sized bombs up to and including the 1600kg, it seems like all the indicators point to a post-BOB H-6 model that shouldn't ever be used in the BOB scenario.

Now that I think about it, the fuel tanks in the bomb bays are signature of the H-5 and H-6 models. First introduced in the H-4, which was a short run leading up to the H-5 and mostly didn't see service in the BOB. It also had engines with between 140-200hp more (per engine) than the H-3 carried.

It seems HTC gave us an entirely inappropriate model for the BOB.

Is it possible we got a plane that will work for BOB far better than anything else we have substituted, and also be possibly worthwhile for use in the MA?

[Karnak]

Is it possible we got a plane that will work for BOB far better than anything else we have substituted, and also be possibly worthwhile for use in the MA?

No. There isn't any He111 suited to the MA.

[Plawranc]

If you make the scenario rules for the BoB, Heinkels can only have MG's.

Then you essentially have a BoB Heinkel.

Plus the Bombload is lovely.