He111 is HERE!!!!!!!!

[gyrene81]

Germany wasn't the bad guy in WWI anymore than any other nation was.  The entire war was a catastrophic mix of stupidity, greed, nationalism, ethnic thinking, power seeking, secret treaties and lies.

the government had a choice when ferdinand was assassinated. they chose to do what they had been considering for years prior to the event and sent armies out to conquer, not defend, that makes them the bad guys.




we wouldn't even be discussing this stuff in a discussion about the he-111 if it weren't for the mouth breathing basement dweller fvw. irritating.

[Karnak]

the government had a choice when ferdinand was assassinated. they chose to do what they had been considering for years prior to the event and sent armies out to conquer, not defend, that makes them the bad guys.

The UK was also itching for a fight.  The fact that Germany jumped first doesn't mean the UK wasn't also looking to jump.  The whole Dreadnought race wasn't sustainable and they needed to "put Germany in its place" so to speak.

[gyrene81]

The UK was also itching for a fight.  The fact that Germany jumped first doesn't mean the UK wasn't also looking to jump.  The whole Dreadnought race wasn't sustainable and they needed to "put Germany in its place" so to speak.

true and if the uk had jumped first, they probably would not have gotten as much international backing as they did. but again (if everything purported is to be believed), they made a choice to pursue a course of action that they knew would start a war they thought they could win. weren't the germans the first ones to deploy lethal chemical weapons in ww1?

[GScholz]

[Karnak]

Blackadder is classic.

[pembquist]

Pretty much my understanding. You can fault the Germans for moving first except that you have to consider that they were facing the prospect of a two front war and their Schlieffen plan dictated that the only way they could win was to move in the time afforded by the allies mobilization. If you haven't read "the guns of August" I highly recommend that you do. (By "you" I don't mean anyone in particular.)

[gyrene81]

wtf is that? must be some bbc sitcom, never seen it. isn't that hugh laurie and rowan atkinson?

[GScholz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackadder

[nrshida]

wtf is that? must be some bbc sitcom, never seen it. isn't that hugh laurie and rowan atkinson?

Yup. This is Season / Series 4. Well worth a watch.

[gyrene81]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackadder

ok, a simple yes would have sufficed whale muncher... 

[GScholz]

I highly recommend that series though. 

[LCADolby]

The 1st series was a little off though. The best bit of the 4th series is the flying corps episode "back in time for tea and medals"

[F77]

Stepping back from socio-political arguments a moment... What is really fascinating was that Germany didn't exist prior to unification in 1871.  What is now Germany was a series of individual kingdoms, dukedoms, city states and princedoms.  Back in 1914 I guess that to a lot of older people, calling them "German" would have been as much an insult as calling a Canadian, "American".  Each of the "princely states" as they are referred to in the catalogues have their own monetary systems and weights and measures.  Germany was only 43 years old at the outbreak of WW1.

In case people are wondering I am a numismatist (a coin collector for the benefit of FVW).  I have several coins of pre-unification, including a Prussian victory thaler for the Franco-Prussian war.

[GScholz]

For all intents and purposes Pre-Weimar Germany was "Greater Prussia", having been unified under the Prussian Kaiser by the shrewd political maneuverings and military aggression of Otto von Bismarck.

[SmokinLoon]

For all intents and purposes Pre-Weimar Germany was "Greater Prussia", having been unified under the Prussian Kaiser by the shrewd political maneuverings and military aggression of Otto von Bismarck.

My favorite quote of Otto's is "there are two things the public should never see: the making of sausage and the making of laws." Germany owes a lot to Otto Von Bismark.