Il2 Rockets

[MK-84]

What is the difference between each available?

[USRanger]

One type goes whoooooosh & the other type goes sheeeeewww.

[WEZEL]

One type goes whoooooosh & the other type goes sheeeeewww.

 

[SmokinLoon]

Damage wise:

RS-82 = 93 lbs of damage (found only on the IL-2 and I-16)
RS-132 = 120 lbs of damage (found only the IL-2)

I used the I-16 armed with the 6/RS82 rockets against soft skinned gv's with very good effect.  In most cases a direct hit is not needed to at least stop them with a damaged engine, busted track, or blown tires.  The same goes for the IL-2 and either set of rockets. I almost think the RS-82 rockets have a flatter trajectory, but I have not tested them specifically.   

FWIW, a lot of people only use the IL-2 to bust up gv's.  However, I challenge people to do the math and see just what an IL-2 can do against OBJ's as well.  While it is slow, the IL-2 dives very well and is heavily armored.  Taking %100 fuel gives it roughly 32 min of fuel in the MA.  Taking up the 4/100 kg bombs = 1100 lbs of damage.  Throw in the 4/RS132 rockets for another 480 lbs of damage.  The 37mm's do 17 lbs of damage per shot (both AP and HE 37mm from aircraft do the same OBJ damage, just remember the IL-2's AP rounds have no splash damage).  I full ordnance load from an IL-2 and a half of a ordnance load from another IL-2 can bring down a hanger.  Not bad, really.  But alas, the lure of the P51D uber plane is too strong. 

[icepac]

The difference in HE charge size between RS82 and WG21 is a very big difference.

I'm not completely sure of source data but it seems to be that the wg21 carries nearly 100 times the HE charge as the RS82.

[SmokinLoon]

The difference in HE charge size between RS82 and WG21 is a very big difference.

I'm not completely sure of source data but it seems to be that the wg21 carries nearly 100 times the HE charge as the RS82.

You're exactly correct.  The RS82 has less than 1 lb of TNT, and the WGr21's have 90 to 100 lbs of explosives (depending on source).  I agree, they are very different in explosives charges, but remember the scale I mentioned?  It is based on the 321 lb scale.  It appears HTC has everything scaled to a 2,3,4, or more scale vs the 321 lb OBJ.  HTC has given the RS82 the value of 93 lbs of damage vs OBJ's, and the WGr21 a value of 200 lbs of damage.

What you are trying to get an answer for has been dealt with my others already.  HTC has spoken and I wish you well in trying to convince them to alter their current ordnance scaling.     

[icepac]

WG21 is like carrying around a heavy desert eagle .50 around that fires .22 short rounds and other rockets are like a .22 snub nose that hits like a 9mm loaded with +p load.

You take the performance hit for the huge size, weight, and drag penalty but you don't get the benefit of the much larger charge.  (100 times larger in the case of RS82 vs WG21)

I haven't been here long enough to know but I will guess there was a huge gnashing of teeth when the small rockets made a small boom and the big rockets made a big boom.

The solution to the player would be to take the large rockets when you want a large boom as opposed to removing historic balance concerning explosive power.

The WG21 could easily be brought up to it's historical power without unbalancing the game by simply removing the contact fuse and use only the timed fuse.

It's no coincidence that the rockets used the most are the ones that overperform vs thier real life counterparts.

[Karnak]

icepac,

They aren't intended to be used as air-to-ground rockets.  You're asking for them to be changed so that you can misuse them.

[MK-84]

I wonder what the WG21 has to do with the differences between IL2 rockets?

[SmokinLoon]

WG21 is like carrying around a heavy desert eagle .50 around that fires .22 short rounds and other rockets are like a .22 snub nose that hits like a 9mm loaded with +p load.

You take the performance hit for the huge size, weight, and drag penalty but you don't get the benefit of the much larger charge.  (100 times larger in the case of RS82 vs WG21)

I haven't been here long enough to know but I will guess there was a huge gnashing of teeth when the small rockets made a small boom and the big rockets made a big boom.

The solution to the player would be to take the large rockets when you want a large boom as opposed to removing historic balance concerning explosive power.

The WG21 could easily be brought up to it's historical power without unbalancing the game by simply removing the contact fuse and use only the timed fuse.

It's no coincidence that the rockets used the most are the ones that overperform vs thier real life counterparts.

Just what do you think HTC should have all of the rockets set to?  You cant just simply make such a broad statement and expect to get HTC to review the situation.  Remember what I've said: HTC has everything based on a scale.  As to why they have chosen the damage values that they have for the rockets and bombs is theirs to know and ours to speculate.  There are many more things at work here than just the weight of TNT.

I've also suggested that you NOT choose the typical air to ground rockets to compare with the WGr21 rockets because it is like comparing a Star Wars Storm Trooper vs a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.  The WGr21's are in a league all their own.  If you want to compare the IL-2 rockets, then the following are in the same category:

RS82: 93 lbs dmg
RS132: 120 lbs dmg
4.5 in: 120 lbs dmg
5in: 156 lbs of dmg
3in/60 Pdr: 187 lbs dmg
Pb1: 93 lbs of dmg

All of them are legit air to HE ground rockets (3in are SAP), with the Pb1's being meant for the anti-armor role though I'm not exactly sure of the warhead (AP, HEAT, etc, ???), they do quite well in their designated role.    Again, notice anything about them in general?  They fall in to the "2, 3, or 4" category in how many are needed to bring down the typical OBH with a 312 lb hardness setting.  Where the better rockets are really felt is when being used vs a hanger, SB, or other such hard target.  The 8/3in rockets from a Mossi or Tiffy off more than 350 lbs more damage than a pair of 500 lbs bombs.   

If you are on a crusade to change the WGr21 rockets for whatever reason, I suggest you think things over thoroughly and figure out exactly what and why you think it needs to be changed.

[icepac]

icepac,

They aren't intended to be used as air-to-ground rockets.  You're asking for them to be changed so that you can misuse them.

The WG21 could easily be brought up to it's historical power without unbalancing the game by simply removing the contact fuse and use only the timed fuse.

You are incorrect.   

My suggestion means that they cannot be used for ground attack.

Thanks for posting without reading.

[Karnak]

You are incorrect.  

My suggestion means that they cannot be used for ground attack.

Thanks for posting without reading.

Then your very premise is suspect.  How do you know it lacks the proper power?  The damage on buildings does not represent how things affect aircraft/vehicles.

[icepac]

Since this is a discussion forum, you and others are free to provide that information that some of us lack.

[Karnak]

Since this is a discussion forum, you and others are free to provide that information that some of us lack.

Unfortunately that is extremely difficult to test, which is why building tests are used by proxy.  That works as a reasonable proxy for gun rounds, but not the arbitrary explosive capability of bombs and rockets, perhaps not for the explosive capability of large rounds either.

What you need to do is demonstrate that the explosive effect against aircraft is less than it ought to be.  Given some of the kills I have seen in AH by the WGr21s I am skeptical that they are underpowered against aircraft.

[SmokinLoon]

Since this is a discussion forum, you and others are free to provide that information that some of us lack.

HTC has specifically said on multiple occasions that the damage us players can actually measure on OBJ's is NOT the same as the damage that is transferred to aircraft and gv's. They are completely two different monsters.  Many of us believe there is a correlation, but since we do not have access to the "coad" we can only speculate (not that I could read "coad" anyways).

Case in point: the German Pb1 rockets. It takes 4 of them to knock out an OBJ with the 312 lb hardness setting (93 lbs x 4).  It takes two of the 5in HVAR rockets (156 lbs x 2).  You can fire those 5in HVAR rockets all day long vs a T34 and unless you get a square hit on the top of the turret or engine compartment every hit you get will just bound off or be absorbed by the armor.  On the other hand, a hit by the Pb1 rockets **anywhere** will destroy the T34 outright.  In terms of the WGr21 rockets, though I have not tested it I'd be willing to bet the splash area if far greater than any other rocket (save for the 28cm Wurfkorper rockets) in AH.  Why? The amount of TNT in the warhead, the thinner and more fragile casing, and their design in general.  I've not ever used them vs a gv so I can not vouch for their effectiveness, however I'll take the liberty and assume the AP ability of the WGr21 would be as minimal as can be thanks to the tinfoil-like casing.  

Like I've said before, some of us have already engaged HTC regarding the very issue(s) you are bringing up.  I do not disagree with you, but since I've been down that road I'm trying to help you understand.  I think your best bet for a "wish" would be to have HTC remove the impact ability of the WGr21, not to have them completely revamp their damage scale.  They've proven to be very reluctant to change hardness setting on OBJ's, or to drastically alter the damage scale for entire class of ordnance.

check this thread out:  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,302726.15.html