FSO is about who you know not what you know

[Devil 505]

your whole point seems to me that small squads are barely worth having bc we don't rack up kills/targets. its hard to do that when you re given junk and used as filler/fodder. im pretty sure im out. its clear that this is a big squad event and the rest are just there as filler/fodder. because we have no measurable effect.

No. That is your projection of the situation. The small squads are equally important as medium/large squads. It is the size that dictates the likely roles based on variety of factors. Small squads are best used as as filler because their size is inadequate for other roles. They will either scout, be part of an escort group, part of a defensive group or part of a strike group(bombers). The idea being that by combining multiple smaller squads, that you project the strength of a larger one. Of course a large squad has the advantage of having its pilots being familiar with each other.
If you complaint is more an issue with getting the better planes, then what you have to remember is that these planes are often severely restricted. A good CiC recognizes this will issue them to squads who will likely maximize their potential. If I have 10 190A-5s to give out I will choose one 7-10 squad vs. two 4-6 squads in order to concentrate the effect. It is not because those small squads are bad, but because the smaller squads are better used in another role due to their flexibility.
I don't know what to tell you on the squad size vs. total kills thing. Your squad simply cant compete because of the difference in numbers. If you are equating zestfulness to the squad size only, then you re dead wrong. If both of our squads average 2 kills per pilot, Duxford scores 12 and KN, 20. Same squad quality, big difference in kill quantity though isn't there?

[cohofly]

2. Focus on playing one side for a few consecutive months (this is usually easier when choosing Axis) This helps to build camaraderie between your squad and the side regulars. You don't really gain any notoriety bouncing around from side to side. As you said, who you know does helps.

So how does one go about getting their requested side? You make it sound like its a given, and maybe for a few select squadrons it is. Unfortunately its statements like this that seem to justify the OP's original complaint. My squad and I dont choose to "Bounce Around" as you so casually seem to believe. Being in a smaller Squad should have no bearing on what side you get put on or what ride you recieve on Fridays, but IMO seems to be the case.

[Devil 505]

So how does one go about getting their requested side? You make it sound like its a given, and maybe for a few select squadrons it is. Unfortunately its statements like this that seem to justify the OP's original complaint. My squad and I dont choose to "Bounce Around" as you so casually seem to believe. Bieng in a smaller Squad should have no bearing on what side you get put on or what ride you recieve on Fridays, but IMO seems to be the case.

You raise a good point. I was thinking thet there was group of predominant Allied squads, but that isnt really the case. I was figuring that most of the squads that moved between sides did so voluntarily, also probably not the case. I imagine that the small squad size issue only manifests itself with the side split when there needs to be set imbalance between sides.

My original point only applies to dedicated Axis squads, as we are more familiar with each others strengths and weaknesses. I doubt that a squad with "RAF" in their name would be all that interested in staying Axis for a while.

[VuduVee]

No. That is your projection of the situation. The small squads are equally important as medium/large squads. It is the size that dictates the likely roles based on variety of factors. Small squads are best used as as filler because their size is inadequate for other roles. They will either scout, be part of an escort group, part of a defensive group or part of a strike group(bombers). The idea being that by combining multiple smaller squads, that you project the strength of a larger one. Of course a large squad has the advantage of having its pilots being familiar with each other.
If you complaint is more an issue with getting the better planes, then what you have to remember is that these planes are often severely restricted. A good CiC recognizes this will issue them to squads who will likely maximize their potential. If I have 10 190A-5s to give out I will choose one 7-10 squad vs. two 4-6 squads in order to concentrate the effect. It is not because those small squads are bad, but because the smaller squads are better used in another role due to their flexibility.
I don't know what to tell you on the squad size vs. total kills thing. Your squad simply cant compete because of the difference in numbers. If you are equating zestfulness to the squad size only, then you re dead wrong. If both of our squads average 2 kills per pilot, Duxford scores 12 and KN, 20. Same squad quality, big difference in kill quantity though isn't there?

i am equating zest with squad size. bc, if a small squad is playing hard and doing the very best they can with what they have, at some point those small squads should be given some dam credit. but its not like that, we get the sht end just about every week, no matter that we may have earned our keep. and the bigger squads get to reap what they sow and smaller ones dont, they are an afterthought even though they play just as hard. based on this alone, imo Duxford should bow out of FSO.

[Devil 505]

i am equating zest with squad size. bc, if a small squad is playing hard and doing the very best they can with what they have, at some point those small squads should be given some dam credit. but its not like that, we get the sht end just about every week, no matter that we may have earned our keep. and the bigger squads get to reap what they sow and smaller ones dont, they are an afterthought even though they play just as hard. based on this alone, imo Duxford should bow out of FSO.

How would you go about seeing that the smaller squads get propper regognition?

I hope you understand that I'm trying to help and not advocating that small squads get shafted. The point that I was trying to make is that nature of being a small squad dictates a higher risk of being shafted. My suggestions were made to help your squad minimize that risk. Quitting FSO solves nothing.

[MoeGas]

The GunFighters are a bigger squad and not only did we not get the ride we asked for but we didn't even get the side we asked for. We were tasked base defence in P39D's of all things. We ended up having a blast and got top squad for kills.  We all ended up down but everyone of us did the best we could with what we were given. Not every mission works out the way we plan but we always try and make the most of it. Hang in there and try and have fun with it.. <S>

[Poppy]

this is bullcrap.....purposely putting someone in particular rides because you got shafted is LAME....and should be grounds for suspension IMO

you say you got stuck with the lo end Zero's.....I am guessing that particular FSO EVERYONE had those crappy Zero's....

it should be about the Axis/Allies not YOU in FSO

We always accept our orders ink, we always do our best without complaint (verifiable) and our squad shares your exact view about it being for the good of the entire team, complaints are for this forum and that's why we're here sharing our opinions about them.   I'd accept suspension if it were so deemed. Keep in mind though I spoke my opinion of something that can be done and in reality is done, it just is and most of the time it's out of necessity but it's only human to actually do or say these things too. Now if those that have in the past committed what we're talking about aren't retroactively suspended for actually having committed what I simply said I could or would do then I'd have to resist any acceptance of a suspension with out them being held accountable with me. I've witnessed first hand this activity of preferential and detrimental treatment of squads from within other FSO squads also. My remark about my squad being stuck in the lowest zero wasn't so much about the plane as it was about being in that plane for the total tour especially when there were much better aircraft available and being rotated, hell, we would've gladly taken a Val instead because it turns and doesn't fly to peaces at 400 mph. ALL CIC's do their part for the sake of the events frame, some do what we're talking about also. Maybe when we, as in anyone having CIC duty, evaluate actual accomplishments of those smaller squads through their achievements in FSO first instead of filling empty spaces, can change what we're talking about by doing this. Can't hurt. Us in the 35th take our assigning of squads seriously, very seriously and consider every one thoroughly before utilizing them. We've even had guys think we shafted em when we thought it was perfect for them but this example isn't what I'm talking about, the alleged unintentional things being done that many feel are being done on purpose is what I feel is a problem. No animosity here, I feel some are over exerting their authori tie some what against the spirit of FSO.  

[captain1ma]

vuduvee: having been a CIC numerous times, i can tell you this, i personally try to make sure no group is in the same plane twice in a row. i change everything up. one of the things i try very hard to do is work with small squads. JG54 started the FSO with 4-6 most weeks bearly making 3. we got beat up pretty good, almost every week. then i was assigned CIC and i freaked. after taking some oxy and a couple of beers, and some help from good people, i sat down and did what i thought was right.

again jg54 was a small squad. so to make up for numbers i always put put a small squad with a large squad, or put 2 small squads together in hopes that they would work together. having played the game for awhile, you get to know how some of the squads are and what they are capable of. my idea of putting a small squad with a big one, was so they would fly together and the smaller squad might learn something from them. We've flown with JG11 a few times. great bunch of guys, lots of fun to fly with, and very organized. what i learned flying with them, makes me use them in a particular fashion by playing to their strengths when I'm CIC. this is my style and how i like to put groups together. Other CIC's may or may not give it as much thought as i do.

for the longest time, JG54 would get beat up pretty bad. now we have enough numbers so that we dont get beat up so bad all the time, just most to the time! 

the point is sometimes you just have to take your licks, get better or get more numbers. we recruit heavily. i look at the roster in the FSO, and try to recruit people that are out of uniform later in the week. eventually things will get better. just stick with it, we did, and we have alot of fun because of it. JG54 is not the best squad, but we have a good time and everyone that flies likes it. i hope you can get past your frustrations. if you'd like fly with us sometime just for a change of pace, you're welcome to join us. it might just be what you need.

<S> jeager1

[Pand]

1. Always update your squad's ride preference each month. You have spit8's and 9's named but they are not in this months setup. Also you generically stated that "buffs" are OK. Well, there aren't any spits to go around so you got buffs just like you asked for(whenever you last updated your rides).

I'll also back up what Devil 505 said regarding setting your preferences.  We used to never update our preferences @ ahevents.org and that was us rolling the dice because we didn't know any better.  Things improved once we started updating when the next month's FSO was announced.

[surfinn]

yep you can update your preferences but if your a small squad ya still get swapped around while others don't have to rotate through. The 35th has always asked for allied ac and we have been put on Axis side for the 4th time in less than a year while other squads seam to never change sides like JG11. So what exactly is the rotaion schedule?
Now don't get me wrong we will fight as hard on axis side as we do on allied but we really shouldn't have to swap sides that often if the rotaion was fair. I can totally see the OPs point

[VuduVee]

How would you go about seeing that the smaller squads get propper regognition?

I hope you understand that I'm trying to help and not advocating that small squads get shafted. The point that I was trying to make is that nature of being a small squad dictates a higher risk of being shafted. My suggestions were made to help your squad minimize that risk. Quitting FSO solves nothing.

i understand youre trying to help. i also understand that as things are now, small squads dont get a fair shake. you ask how would i go about seein that small squads get proper recognition. i would quit putting them in positions to fail. i would recognize the small squads that have earned the right to be thought of as more than fodder. i would give them their due and put them in positions to succeed. instead of giving them scraps or leftovers. you said your 20 kills is more significant than our 12 kills. i understand that, bc 20 is more than 12. but, we played just as hard for those 12 kills.  we fulfilled our obligation just like you guys. yet we get stuck with scraps every week. for our efforts we get nothing. its not fair at all imo.

[surfinn]

vud  ya only needed 4 ac to get 12 they needed 15 to get their 20 lol stay small sir 

[Stampf]

The 35th has always asked for allied ac and we have been put on Axis side for the 4th time in less than a year while other squads seam to never change sides like JG11

This is not correct concerning JG11.

Surf...more squads generally request Allies....so more squads requesting Allies get assigned Axis.  JG11 requests "Axis" when their is Luftwaffe planes, and requests, "No preference" in the Pacific...so the CMs can put us where they need us.

Also...When it's JG11's turn at CiC...we assign ourselves Bombers.  Have every time for 6 plus years.

[surfinn]

looking at the logs JG11 hasn't flown allied for over a year. I would like to know how the rotation is worked out or even if there is one. It was my understanding that ya had to rotate through every once in a while. Is it a case though of x amount of players vrs side strength. 60/40 split 40/60 split ?????

Oh and I would like that explanation scattered smothered and covered please

[Hopper]

looking at the logs JG11 hasn't flown allied for over a year. I would like to know how the rotation is worked out or even if there is one. It was my understanding that ya had to rotate through every once in a while. Is it a case though of x amount of players vrs side strength. 60/40 split 40/60 split ?????

Oh and I would like that explanation scattered smothered and covered please

More squads request to fly for the ally's.

Forcing us to fly allied would also force an allied squad to fly axis, is that really what you want surfinn?