An interesting fix for high alt, high speed bombers

[Chalenge]

99% of the players in Aces High will never learn how to chase bardar like you do Luche. Just like other aspects of the game, high altitude interception requires a unique set of skills to be done properly. Most players will never master it in the current state because after climbing and chasing bardar for even 20 minutes they will loose interest. And for an inexperienced player, chasing bardar leads invariably to a stern attack which further frustrates the interceptor.

Since most players have lost interest in attempting high altitude interception, you can't even begin to teach proper techniques for doing it.

Which is why even people with experience in AH are now asking for bombers to be weakened. I call it laziness.

[DarkHawk]

I often fly at 20 to 25k, if a long run then up to 32k or higher, and very seldom will anyone come up to play. Once and a while you well see a enemy fighter who will fly past the bomber at icon range an never even attempt an angle of attack even if the have altitude on said set of buff's. I very seldom fly at max speed except at climbout. usually at 2300 rpm, 38 manifold ( speed tas 240 doors open, 250 doors closed and abut 270 when empty).
DHawk   

[SmokinLoon]

Which is why even people with experience in AH are now asking for bombers to be weakened. I call it laziness.

"Weakened" is not the word I'd use nor would I call the suggestion(s) laziness.  I think a better analogy is allowing for some historical accuracy in the way certain platforms were deployed and used.  I don't think anyone is asking for the guns, bombs, air frames, etc. etc,  to be "weakened", instead what is being asked is for some sort of historical accuracy to be applied in how a heavy bomber, or any bomber is used.  Obviously, putting a damper on anything would tighten the bounds in which it could be used and ultimately I don't think anything is being abused or does not a some sort of risk in being used (300+ perks lost for losing a flight of B29's, etc).  

As I've said before, if bombers like the B17, B24, and Lancaster for example were restricted to 250 TAS or less (historically accurate numbers) in order for the bombs to drop of out the bay, that would open wide up the importance of having escort fighters along for the trip, or at least part of the trip.  Most of us know that escort fighters rendezvoused somewhere other than where the bombers took off from.  If by chance HTC could come across some official documentation showing what a "standard" speed was in dropping ordnance for each bomber, I doubt they would even go there.  Ever think that some bombers had a maximum speed in which bomb bay doors could be opened?  Check it out sometime, you'd be surprised at which bomber in AH goes screaming over an enemy target about 60 mph faster than what it was mechanically able to do (think of trying to deploy flaps at to high a speed).  

HTC has to balance between historical accuracy and game play, and if the plane go perform at such levels then so be it: let the plane flay at its fastest speed and drop bombs based on some chart somewhere.  If the B24 could fly at 290+ TAS at 25,000 ft and drop 8 tons of ordnance in 50 yard square area then so be it, why restrict it just because a USAAF bombing SOP beckoned it to do so in WWII?  I understand the premises in AH completely.  Arbitrary restrictions are not HTC's way of doing things.  In the AH MA's, we have no wind, each base and strat is the same, every hanger has the same hardness, all town buildings are the same, etc, etc.  Heck, we can even tell to the minute when an OBJ is going to be repaired.  There is no guess work.  It doesn't get any easier that what we have now.  Ever think it may be YOU who is lazy in shooting from the hip with your accusation???          

[Chalenge]

"Weakened" is not the word I'd use nor would I call the suggestion(s) laziness.  I think a better analogy is allowing for some historical accuracy in the way certain platforms were deployed and used.  I don't think anyone is asking for the guns, bombs, air frames, etc. etc,  to be "weakened", instead what is being asked is for some sort of historical accuracy. . .         

No, it's laziness. I have not seen anyone suggest the same accuracy be applied to a single fighter. Nor has anyone suggested that bombers only be allowed to fly in groups of 500, which is the historically correct reason bombers flew at reduced power.

'Historical accuracy' is not what AH does best. AH gives us the equipment, none of it limited by 'historical weakness' and we use it as we see fit. If you want to fly a bomber around at reduced power you are free to do so. I've also noticed that no one has mentioned bombers above 30k! Every one of the bombers in AH can out turn 110's, 410's, and Jugs at 35k. That is historically accurate.

No, what you don't like is that it takes too long for your fighter to catch a bomber. Even when AH pilots finally catch one they usually attack it in the dumbest way they know how, and the reason they do that is laziness, and lack of patience.

No, my assessment is accurate. It's laziness. This wish is nothing more than asking HTC to change the game to favor the way the OP flies. That sort of wish is never granted because HTC can see right through it.

[Baumer]

As I've said before, if bombers like the B17, B24, and Lancaster for example were restricted to 250 TAS or less (historically accurate numbers) in order for the bombs to drop of out the bay, that would open wide up the importance of having escort fighters along for the trip, or at least part of the trip.  Most of us know that escort fighters rendezvoused somewhere other than where the bombers took off from.  If by chance HTC could come across some official documentation showing what a "standard" speed was in dropping ordnance for each bomber, I doubt they would even go there.  Ever think that some bombers had a maximum speed in which bomb bay doors could be opened?  Check it out sometime, you'd be surprised at which bomber in AH goes screaming over an enemy target about 60 mph faster than what it was mechanically able to do (think of trying to deploy flaps at to high a speed).  
     

Could you provide some specific examples of this please? I have data for a few planes and they all show very high speeds for door limits. For example the door limit speed on the B-17G is 305mph indicated.

If there is a particular bomber that exceeds it's door speed then HTC should look at limiting door operation just like flap operation. 

[Karnak]

No, it's laziness. I have not seen anyone suggest the same accuracy be applied to a single fighter. Nor has anyone suggested that bombers only be allowed to fly in groups of 500, which is the historically correct reason bombers flew at reduced power.

Why do you think the Germans win every Battle of Britain setting run in AH despite having had essentially no chance historically?  All I am asking for is a tool that can be used in historical settings to limit the bombers, when flown as a formation, to historical speeds.  This would not affect the MA at all as it wouldn't be enabled in the MA.

The Spitfires and Hurricanes are already limited to their historical speeds.  Why should the bombers not be as well?

[icepac]

Pretty sure I can maintain at least a sector at 380mph in a zero before reaching 30,000 feet.

I derive a lot of enjoyment planning intercepts of the highests altitude and fastest buffs in the game.

Once I catch them, it's like a normal low altitude sortie and loses my interest fast.

[jeffdn]

99% of the players in Aces High will never learn how to chase bardar like you do Luche. Just like other aspects of the game, high altitude interception requires a unique set of skills to be done properly. Most players will never master it in the current state because after climbing and chasing bardar for even 20 minutes they will loose interest. And for an inexperienced player, chasing bardar leads invariably to a stern attack which further frustrates the interceptor.

Since most players have lost interest in attempting high altitude interception, you can't even begin to teach proper techniques for doing it.

I've been playing since November of 2012 and I have dar bar-based interceptions down to the point that I am frequently accused of cheating, spying, or having a shade account. It isn't rocket science, it literally requires only a few minutes of patience and some basic reasoning.

[shotgunneeley]

Two things I like to do most in AH: fly buff missions and intercept buff missions. Even though I'm part of a bomber squad and place a lot of effort in that interest, I would not be against throttling back bomber formation speed. I like the idea limiting the max speed of drones only while flying level in formation. During the any other time (take off, landing, climb or any evasive maneuvers), they should not be hampered any more than they already are.

A formation of buffs has three times the lives, defensive protection, and offensive bomb load at no cost (unless perked). The price of taking two additional drones should be a reduction in max throttle speed in level flight to something less than full tilt. AH is a perfect world environment where everything operates at its full potential without mechanical difficulty or problems. This is especially true for buff formations with all three planes being identical to one another. Differences between the three regarding engine performance, fuel consumption, weight, etc. that would all normally affect speed is non-existent in the game. I would reason that nothing should be changed in non-level flight because the three planes would be loosely operating and not stressed with keeping a tight formation. While in level flight though, reduced throttle input should be required to keep a tight formation.

[phatzo]

it literally requires only a few minutes of patience and some basic reasoning.

well there's your problem

[jeffdn]

well there's your problem

As with all things in life, I suppose.

[Chalenge]

Why do you think the Germans win every Battle of Britain setting run in AH despite having had essentially no chance historically?  All I am asking for is a tool that can be used in historical settings to limit the bombers, when flown as a formation, to historical speeds.  This would not affect the MA at all as it wouldn't be enabled in the MA.

The Spitfires and Hurricanes are already limited to their historical speeds.  Why should the bombers not be as well?

It's not what you are asking for that is so wrong.

[SmokinLoon]

No, it's laziness. I have not seen anyone suggest the same accuracy be applied to a single fighter. Nor has anyone suggested that bombers only be allowed to fly in groups of 500, which is the historically correct reason bombers flew at reduced power.

'Historical accuracy' is not what AH does best. AH gives us the equipment, none of it limited by 'historical weakness' and we use it as we see fit. If you want to fly a bomber around at reduced power you are free to do so. I've also noticed that no one has mentioned bombers above 30k! Every one of the bombers in AH can out turn 110's, 410's, and Jugs at 35k. That is historically accurate.

No, what you don't like is that it takes too long for your fighter to catch a bomber. Even when AH pilots finally catch one they usually attack it in the dumbest way they know how, and the reason they do that is laziness, and lack of patience.

No, my assessment is accurate. It's laziness. This wish is nothing more than asking HTC to change the game to favor the way the OP flies. That sort of wish is never granted because HTC can see right through it.

Your opinion is just that.  You're awfully quick to sling mud and label and just may forget that just because someone does not agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong.  Some would call you lazy for not wanting to have to defend your bombers or rely on an escort fighter.   

I have no issues with how long it takes for a fighter to "catch" a bomber.  That isn't the issue, never has been and it wont ever be with me.  Under a speed restriction, the bomber pilot who takes his B24's to 25k under full power and levels off under full power for 3-4 sectors before setting up calibration and opening doors is not going to change a thing.  That last 25 miles or so he will have to cut his throttle (perhaps a dot command???) and set his bomber to speed X.  Once the bombs are dropped then hammer down and away he goes.  So for 25 miles or so he has to reduce throttle.  Is it worth HTC to even model for that?  Probably not.  The big thing at least for me is the blatant accuracy the bombs have. There is very minimal dispersal of the bombs, if any.

Instead of a speed restriction, I'd like to see HTC implement a speed scale of sorts: the faster the bomber is going the less accurate the bombs are going to be, AND the higher the bomber is the less accurate the bombs will be.  It is simply too easy to bomb accurately while moving at 300 TAS and from from 35,000 ft.  There is no wind in the MA's, there is no rain, no cloud cover, no darkness, etc, etc, etc. 

[icepac]

Lowering bomb accuracy with altitude will just cause the population to never again fly up to historical operational altitudes.

Lowering bomb accuracy with speed is ok and it seems to already be in place to a very small degree.

[SmokinLoon]

Lowering bomb accuracy with altitude will just cause the population to never again fly up to historical operational altitudes.

Lowering bomb accuracy with speed is ok and it seems to already be in place to a very small degree.

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.     Never say never, and it going to 25k means a higher chance of surviving yet having a %20 larger impact zone then I'm willing to bet nothing changes.

I've not noticed a bit of difference in accuracy depending on altitude.  If there is a variable it is very miniscule.