n1k vs spit

[Noir]

Should the n1K use its flaps to beat the spit in a turnfight? What is its corner speed?

[Triton28]

I'm no N1K or spit expert, but a post by BigRat sticks out in my head right now.

In another help thread, he made mention about the N1K being a close match to the F4U's in turning ability.  If that's the case, the N1K probably can't win a turnfight unless the Spit makes a big mistake.  I know when I flew the F4U a lot, if I was actually winning angles against a spit, it was because the spit had no idea what he was doing.

[Noir]

The wiki page states that with flaps the n1k should turn inside a spit9, but is quite vague about the number of notches and speeds...

[bustr]

Talk to 2Cmex about N1K2 and flaps. He has gotten very good lately with when and how to use the flaps. Often 7-8 kills landed each sorte now.

[ink]

Talk to 2Cmex about N1K2 and flaps. He has gotten very good lately with when and how to use the flaps. Often 7-8 kills landed each sorte now.

I agree, one of the best I have seen in N1k

[Krusty]

I'm not 2cmex, and I'm not saying I'm an expert in the particular ride, but I have landed scores of 8+ sorties in the LWA with this plane.

IMO the spit stalls better and the guns do more damage. The split flaps on the N1K2 suck. Avoid them except in the most dire of situations. You have possibly more durability and much higher ammo count, so take every shot you can, spray and pray against a spit.

I would say perhaps they're evenly matched but the spit is going to be easier to achieve victory in.

[Daddkev]

  ou guys use flaps? 

[Krusty]

Not in a N1k2 

[Noir]

I flew it a bit more yesterday, and It looked like dumping the flaps as soon as I could gave me an edge in the turnfight...also according to http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php the spit16 beats the N1K in turn radius without flaps, but the N1K wins with flaps. Too bad the site doesn't list the degrees/sec.

[nrshida]

The split flaps on the N1K2 suck.

They're not split flaps, they're Fowler flaps and were designed to be used in combat, hence the automatic deployment.

[Krusty]

They're not split flaps, they're Fowler flaps and were designed to be used in combat, hence the automatic deployment.

D'oh, you're quite right! They are NOT split flaps! My bad.









They still suck!   

[Debrody]

Nuke, please, dont listen to Krusty now. Even though i havent spent much time in either of them... still, my observations:

-both planes without flaps, the spit (any) easily turns inside the niki. An other thing is, while the spit gains a lot of turn radius by using the flaps, its turn rate decreases drastically, from ~15.5 seconds per circle to ~17.5-18 second. The niki does a circle in 16.8-17 seconds without flaps and in ~ 17.5 second by using them. Their turn radius is roughly the same in both cases. So in a flat turn, the spit should keep his energy, without flaps it easily beats the niki.
-in a scissoring dogfight, the japaneese plane has a very minor turn radius and turn rate advantage, but also some disadvantage in the roll rate - might be more difficult to reverse at the top. And it doesnt matter which plane you fly, always use full flaps in a low speed (vertical-style) rolling scissors situation, as the turn radius and stall speed counts a lot more here than the raw turn rate.

After all, yes, the niki should definiately use its flaps.

[Noir]

thanks deb for the input, on top of the barell roll the n1k should be able to use the snap rolls to mitigate the roll disadvantage not unlike the p47

[Karnak]

IMO the spit stalls better and the guns do more damage.

They have better ballistics and on a per round basis the Hispano Mk II do slightly more than the Type 99 Model IIs, but the N1K2-J carries four of the later with nearly twice the ammo load per gun to the Spit's two Hispanos.

[Krusty]

Don't listen to debrody... If you're forcing yourself to only fight in rolling scissors against spits you lose.

If the only time to use flaps in the N1K2 is rolling scissors, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Then boring your other foot into falling off.

The resons a spit will win against a n1k2 is that the N1K2 is much more sluggish in acceleration. It's not as light nor as responsive at low stall speeds. It doesn't roll nearly as well. In overall handling it loses. While you may get a 1-in-a-million chance that the spit enters a turn fight with you at the precise milisecond and precise speed and position to allow you to use full flaps to out-turn it (assuming the spitfire only flies a perfect flat circle, allowing you to out-turn it) you might be able to out-turn it.

The reality is this is a test condition and I haven't ever run into it in dynamic dogfights. Rolling scissors is also a test condition used to measure e-peen in the DA. Outside of a couple of rolls if somebody doesn't break off, both are losers. Both pilots locking themselves into rolling scissors when it clearly does nothing to end or improve the fight, means both pilots are not thinking smart. It's like a luftberry where both planes have the exact same rate and radius of turn, and they sit there looking at each other, waiting and waiting til they close the gap -- only they never do because they lock themselves into a single plan of action.

The N1K2 is a pretty lethal plane, but IMO the spits hold just about all the cards.

Karnak: Yes the N1K2 has twice the guns, but there's something about them... I get a single ping snapshot from a spit and stuff falls off... I get a solid 1-second multi-ping burst from all 4 guns on the N1K2 and the target keeps flying. Not so much rubber bullets as just weak rounds. Subjective, I know, but I find I run through a LOT more ammo per kill in the N1K2 than when I use hispanos.