Author Topic: No Icons for enemy  (Read 10503 times)

Offline Pand

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2013, 12:39:48 PM »
more realistic would be the icon getting smaller as the enemy gets closer, to the point of a tiny dot above plane once within say 400 yards, text disappearing.....

I understand how Icons from far away replicate the vision of the eye, but once its close the huge Icon goes far beyond real vision, and makes it basically imposable to lose vis on the con.

 icon normal as it is now at distance, as the con gets closer have it get smaller.... at 800 the text disappears....at 400 it becomes a small red dot.
this would be perfect IMO
That's a very interesting idea!   Right now everyone is dog-fighting the icon, not the plane and it's almost impossible to make a move in the MA where the other pilot will lose sight of you.

Regards,

Pandemonium
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2013, 12:56:10 PM »
That's a very interesting idea!   Right now everyone is dog-fighting the icon, not the plane and it's almost impossible to make a move in the MA where the other pilot will lose sight of you.

just based on my own experience pand, the reason I dont like no icon settings is because i cant tell the difference between shadow and plane at almost any distance.  I have 20/20 vision but my near vision, i am legally blind.  even with reading glasses it's getting harder for me to see with that big icon glowing.  that's one of the reasons my il2 kills went from hundreds of tanks in month to a few.  by the time I see the tank clearly then it's too late to aim.

and just based on my own information most of the guys that play the game arent teens or 20's, they are guys in their late 30's+.  and the reduced icon, although I wish I could play it, really sucks for us.  there isnt a "we can adjust" but more like it will never happen.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline ink

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2013, 02:27:05 PM »
just based on my own experience pand, the reason I dont like no icon settings is because i cant tell the difference between shadow and plane at almost any distance.  I have 20/20 vision but my near vision, i am legally blind.  even with reading glasses it's getting harder for me to see with that big icon glowing.  that's one of the reasons my il2 kills went from hundreds of tanks in month to a few.  by the time I see the tank clearly then it's too late to aim.

and just based on my own information most of the guys that play the game arent teens or 20's, they are guys in their late 30's+.  and the reduced icon, although I wish I could play it, really sucks for us.  there isnt a "we can adjust" but more like it will never happen.


semp

they have these things.....that sit on your nose( and by the size of your nose I see you will have no problem......:-)

they are called glasses...... :neener:

Offline guncrasher

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2013, 03:01:15 PM »
they have these things.....that sit on your nose( and by the size of your nose I see you will have no problem......:-)

they are called glasses...... :neener:

then put yours own and read the sentence that begins "even with reading glasses..."  :neener: :neener:


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline bustr

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2013, 03:06:30 PM »
INK's suggestion to rework the Icon is interesting.

If you think about it, including the shortened name for each con is a kindness but, contributes to a certain timidness visa knowing ones own skill level in ones current ride. Polar to that, removing the name probably would bring about an epidemic of timid flying like watching a convention of blind people trying out canes in Madison Square Garden.

In the AvA, you know with some certainty what the dot is based on reading the MOTD describing the matchup. Mentally that's a kindness in disguise since you know up front what you are getting into versus the polyglot MA.

Currently we get what in the Icon while in fighter mode?
Country
Plane ID
Distance 200, 400, 600, 800, 1k, 1.5k, 2k, 2.5k, 3k, 3,5k, 4k, 4.5k, 5k, 5,5k, 5.9k

From INK:
more realistic would be the icon getting smaller as the enemy gets closer, to the point of a tiny dot above plane once within say 400 yards, text disappearing.....


Country - To a point it's important. But, if you chose to up from a field next to a rook field to fight rooks, who cares about the chess piece in the icon. You logged on to kill "RED GUYS" and get your name in lights when you landed.

Possibly inside of 600 yards for fighters the chess piece changes to - b, k, or r.

Plane ID - In an Air Combat Simulator that provides only WW2 aircraft as your choice with no historical countries. Yes you want to know what you are facing as soon as possible. At the longest ranges it's important to know what just entered your combat air sphere. But, at say 1k-1.5k we can tell a P51 from a Bf109. Just not which version. In WW2 this was the same issue for pilots and crew, and why they learned to identify silhouettes not Hi-Def photographs.

Possibly inside of 600 yards for fighters the aircraft ID goes away since you can visually recognize the fighter or bomber.

Distance - Inside of 600 yards it's obvious what type and version of plane your con is. Also your gunsight rings do a bangup job of telling you range with the fix to the perspective and 512x512 allowing 2pix-1Mil. Especially since now the icon is under the con, and starting at 400 can be hidden by the engine deck of your fighter. Only thing you need 200-400 is something small and obvious to keep you from shooting at your countrymen by accident. Zoom would be a bit more important in cases like furballing in Hi clutter bushes for the kill shot.

Possibly in fighters: .6, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5.9

Per INK's observation, a simplified Icon might not be such a bad thing for the immersion aspect of close quarters ACM. As long as something was visible at close range to let you know one P51D from another so you don't kill shoot on your countryman. I think it would remove some of the close range lazer lockon to the icon aspect of furballing. Allow a bit more last minute evasive escapes from loosing momentary sight. Currently we do walk a slight edge of the arcade line with icons inside of 1000 yards where Aces High has the supreme ACM physics engine in the industry.

Note: For the Dorks who will say just turn off enemy icons in the MA. With enemy Icons off, until I'm about 600-1k, I don't know if I'm chasing a sneeze dot on my monitor, a terrain dot, or a plane shadow. In most cases being forced to use zoom to figure it out. Suddenly I'm in the tower because I sat there looking for and not evading the sqweeker who flew up my kester. On occasion I will turn off enemy icon in the MA. It's obvious the game was not optimized for this every time I've done it in the last decade. INK's observation is an elegant compromise.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Nathan60

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2013, 03:07:52 PM »
then put yours own and read the sentence that begins "even with reading glasses..."  :neener: :neener:


semp
Reading glasses sometimes wont cut it with a computer. Go to your optometrist and get a pair of computer glasses. Reading a book and a computer screen are 2 separate things.
HamHawk
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CHUGGA-CHUGGA, CHOO-CHOO
Pigs go wing deep

Offline guncrasher

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2013, 03:15:33 PM »
Reading glasses sometimes wont cut it with a computer. Go to your optometrist and get a pair of computer glasses. Reading a book and a computer screen are 2 separate things.

way ahead of you boss, way ahead :).  i got mine set to read at arms lenght which is where my puter sits.  I have a different set for actually reading :).



semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Nathan60

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2013, 03:19:50 PM »
way ahead of you boss, way ahead :).  i got mine set to read at arms lenght which is where my puter sits.  I have a different set for actually reading :).



semp
Well then it must be the alcohol causeing thta blurriness  :neener:
HamHawk
Wing III-- Pigs on The Wing
FSO--JG54
CHUGGA-CHUGGA, CHOO-CHOO
Pigs go wing deep

Offline Karnak

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2013, 03:27:38 PM »
bustr,

Seems to me that using b, k and r would give Rooks a bit of an advantage as the r is noticeably smaller than the b or the k.  Not sure what the solution is, but I don't think it would be too bad just the use a red . for hostiles.  If that is too small, then a º or ■ might work.  Whenever I've been in a Rook, Bish, Knit fight I don't see many recognizing they are in a three way fight.  It creates some odd behaviors.
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Offline bustr

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2013, 04:30:46 PM »
Not knowing if the chess icons in our enemy avatars are a registered brand thing for HTC, I was attempting to keep with the theme.

Personally 600 and in having it switch to a red dot or square above the plane would be a nice change. Or have the wingtips, rudder tip, stabilizer tips and a ring around the nose turn bright red. Or if you want to keep the country Icon, have only that in bright red over top of the con slightly smaller inside of 600.

I don't want HiTech to cut his throat. IL2 as an economic venture proves no Icons in the current era of technology and general customer tolerance for complexity and the flagalistic masochistic requirements to master no Icons is a land slide looser. Even if IL2 is a wet eyecandy dream. Money voted.

Money votes in this game by the virtue of daily numbers when you look at the MA and then the AvA(IL2 light). It's very kind and magnanimous of HiTech to look the other way while one of his customers tries to turn the AvA into IL2 and froths at the mouth in his forums proselytizing IL2 light. Doesn't hurt subscription wise to help immigrant IL2 players to feel they have a tiny bit of the homeland here in the new world. No one was really making use of the Combat Theater. So I bet with HiTech whatever comes of this Avatar exercise.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline ink

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2013, 06:17:31 PM »
then put yours own and read the sentence that begins "even with reading glasses..."  :neener: :neener:


semp
:O
sorry cant speak with this foot between my teeth :rofl :rofl :rofl


durrrrrr

I like the R-B-K thing....

I think the fact that we cannot lose sight of the nme has a major impact on the actual fight....and it is imposable to sneak up on someone who is aware, a casual glance and bamm there is that icon....

ether way it dont matter to me, but I would love to see it get smaller closer it gets.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2013, 06:50:37 PM »
:O
sorry cant speak with this foot between my teeth :rofl :rofl :rofl


durrrrrr

I like the R-B-K thing....

I think the fact that we cannot lose sight of the nme has a major impact on the actual fight....and it is imposable to sneak up on someone who is aware, a casual glance and bamm there is that icon....

ether way it dont matter to me, but I would love to see it get smaller closer it gets.

I totally understand ink but eye sight is like skill, i wish i had some :)

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline bustr

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2013, 09:20:08 PM »
Wife just bought me a 24 inch monitor. Think she's trying to tell me something?

bustr: Wow what a great picture of my grand nephew.
Wife: Honey that's your grand niece......
bustr: Babes, don't get mad but, is this a steer or heifer I'm looking at on this site??
Wife: I'm not mad. But, we need to go to COSTCO. I'm just sad at this point. And the lady next door doesn't like being called "Sir" anymore.
bustr: Is that why you won't let me buy tooth past for us by myself??
Wife: Well sweetie, Jerry Curl does nothing to whiten your teeth.
bustr: I thought coconut flavored tooth past would make you happy. You love coconut.
Wife: I'd get you a 72 inch monitor except you'd go blind.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2013, 10:23:46 PM »
We invited close to 100. Probably had 40 or 50 who responded. I'm not sure, because I no longer have access to that site, just found a couple of pictures I still had.
 


So the overwhelming win for "enemy icons off" was by 20-25 people out of the 50 that answered the poll. Not to good as compared to the HUNDREDS that play in the MAs.

Offline jimson

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Re: No Icons for enemy
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2013, 11:14:58 PM »
So the overwhelming win for "enemy icons off" was by 20-25 people out of the 50 that answered the poll. Not to good as compared to the HUNDREDS that play in the MAs.

No, it's actually more like 35 out of 40 chose no enemy icons. The only difference is the distance at which they wanted friendly icons. If I recall correctly we invited more than 90. Some of those we may have never reached because they were no longer on the bbs etc.  

I'm sure you would like us to assume that the 40 or more who chose not to respond at all would have all been pro-icon, but we can only count the one's who did respond.

Considering the fact that no matter what the icon settings are, the ratio of players in the respective arenas will still be hundreds compared to dozens, you really have no point.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 12:39:49 AM by jimson »