Author Topic: 20 eny 190a8 really....  (Read 2121 times)

Offline bozon

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2013, 08:37:02 PM »
Yeah I would love to see more mossies added, especially the Mk XXX, last I read being 415 mph at at, problem is our mossy barely gets above 24k even then cant chase down bombers.

True its fast, but consider the buffs are flying full speed as well, I had a hell of a time trying to catch up to B24s at 25k, let alone get into any shot other then dead 6.

That is a bit of an exaggeration, but it would have been nice to have a mossie fighter that does 400+ mph at 25k instead of 350 mph and dropping fast with every additional feet. The XXX will be faster than our VI starting from 10,000 ft or so, possibly even lower. More cannon rounds too I think, but need to check. The VI will own it on the deck (on WEP only).

And in the context of this thread - give it ENY of 5 and perk the heck out of it and I'd still fly it every chance I get, alternating with the VI model.

Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

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Offline save

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2013, 12:47:00 AM »
Yeah I would love to see more mossies added, especially the Mk XXX, last I read being 415 mph at at, problem is our mossy barely gets above 24k even then cant chase down bombers.

True its fast, but consider the buffs are flying full speed as well, I had a hell of a time trying to catch up to B24s at 25k, let alone get into any shot other then dead 6.

Many planes are in the same boat, the A8 get out of breath at 20k
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2013, 06:45:14 AM »
gyrene81,

Current Mossie chart:
(Image removed from quote.)

The one you grabbed was from before its update.
oh ok, thanks Karnak i must have something bookmarked wrong...mossie is even faster. 50-60mph speed differential is nothing to sneeze at.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2013, 12:16:34 PM »
Many planes are in the same boat, the A8 get out of breath at 20k

yeah, 190s weren't real high altitude the . Although it should be noted that on the Eastern front, the trend of increasing combat altitudes kind of stopped. Most of the Soviet stuff was best below 10K, which reflects Stalin's insistence on a more short range tactical airforce.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2013, 12:22:21 PM »
Many planes are in the same boat, the A8 get out of breath at 20k

Ever look up the best altitude for speed in the 190A-8?  or the 190A5?  or the 190D-9?  At 20,000 ft the 190's do very well.  :aok
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2013, 01:50:01 PM »
yeah, 190s weren't real high altitude the . Although it should be noted that on the Eastern front, the trend of increasing combat altitudes kind of stopped. Most of the Soviet stuff was best below 10K, which reflects Stalin's insistence on a more short range tactical airforce.
:headscratch:  never heard that one before...i thought i'd heard it all, guess it's a matter of what one would call "high altitude". that means sources are wrong...

maximum speeds (not necessarily operational speeds)
yak-3 447mph at 18,000ft
yak-9d 374mph at 10,000ft
yak-9u 434mph at 16,400ft
la5-fn 402mph at 16,000ft
la-7 423mph at 19,000ft
mig-3 398mph at 22,000ft

fw-190a8 405mph at 19.400ft
fw-190d9 426mph at 21,600ft
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Offline Karnak

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2013, 02:34:45 PM »
For 1940 purposes I'd say high altitude means above 20,000ft.  For 1943 and the rest of WWII I'd raise that to above 25,000ft.
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Offline Franz Von Werra

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2013, 02:51:24 PM »
No expert but during Battle for Britain: England's radar - so luft probably kept getting jumped so was safest to come in at max.
109's max alt was 2-3k higher than spity? Something like 31k to 29k? I don't remember.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2013, 03:19:57 PM »
Apparently, as related by R. R. S. Tuck, the RAF pilots who went over to the US in 1941 to give tips to USAAF fighter pilots based on actual combat experience alarmed them with talks of fighting at 30,000ft.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2013, 03:36:43 PM »
:headscratch:  never heard that one before...i thought i'd heard it all, guess it's a matter of what one would call "high altitude". that means sources are wrong...

maximum speeds (not necessarily operational speeds)
yak-3 447mph at 18,000ft
yak-9d 374mph at 10,000ft
yak-9u 434mph at 16,400ft
la5-fn 402mph at 16,000ft
la-7 423mph at 19,000ft
mig-3 398mph at 22,000ft

fw-190a8 405mph at 19.400ft
fw-190d9 426mph at 21,600ft

Speaking in a relative sense of course. German aircraft tended to perform at very high altitude than the Soviet's stuff did, and so the Soviets didn't frequent where they didn't fight real well. This isn't to say they didn't go up that high, just to say that they stayed lower for the most part. Look at the La-7, its performance advantage is greatest right there on the deck.

Also, look at the evolution of the 109's speed charts. The E4 peaks at around 15k, the F-4 at 19k, the G-2 at about 22k. And from there on, it levels out. The G-6, and K4 both have similar optimal alttudes, while the G-14 is just a bit of an oddball.

Notice the 190's also peak out at around 20K, as do the 110G, and Me 410. The non high-alt spitfires peak at around 20K, along with the Typhoon.


Not entirely sure why, but the trend of increasing optimal altitudes seems to plateau at around 20K, despite being able to tune aircraft for higher altitude, as evidenced by the P-51's, P-47, P-38, Spitfire Mk IX and XIV, Ta-152, and Mig-3 (a high-altitude fighter). If I had to guess, it would probably be the result of increased expense, and lack of return benefit for non-escort fighters (that is to say, combat altitude kind of plateaued as well, save for escorts and interceptors).


And IIRC, the Germans had a directive to avoid combat with Soviet aircraft at low altitude, due to the Soviet fighters being superior lower down.
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2013, 07:44:31 PM »
Apparently, as related by R. R. S. Tuck, the RAF pilots who went over to the US in 1941 to give tips to USAAF fighter pilots based on actual combat experience alarmed them with talks of fighting at 30,000ft.
that's kinda funny :rofl
and rather interesting.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2013, 08:11:35 PM »
that's kinda funny :rofl
and rather interesting.
Tuck said that the USAAF pre-war oxygen system was really lousy and consequently not a lot of flights went up above 15,000ft.
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: 20 eny 190a8 really....
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2013, 02:35:42 AM »
Hunh. Just learned something nthanks Karnak :aok
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