Ideas to encourage flying as units

[artik]

Today 95% of the players in MA fly on their own.

It is far from the way the combat missions were flown.

I think it would be very good if flight of units of 2/4/8 and so would be encouraged.

1. Provide good bonuses to fly in such units:

1.(a) Reduce a cost of perked planes for such units - pair - 10% reduction, 4 - 15% reduction, 8 - 20% reduction.
1.(b) Even if the wingman hadn't done a kill it should receive a bonus. For example for unit of two, the wingman that had lower score would receive 50% of the difference between them. For example, a pair returned where normally pilot A received 5 perk points and pilot B 1 perk point. The A would get his perks as them and B would get 3 perks - (5-1)*0.5 + 1 = 3
1.(c) Send a message for entire unit when the last surviving pilot lands, i.e. "Alpha and Bravo landed with total 5 kills (4 - Alpha,1 - Bravo)"

2. Make sure that the group operates a unit.

2. (a) if wingman has a distance with more than 12K (horizontally) it is not considered a wingman for the calculations (and they would receive a message - lost wingman/leader (and if it was a perk plane the wingmand would loose the bonus points it was given for perk plane).
2. (b) leader can let the wingman leave (disengage) - for example in case of emergency, but from this point the new damage done by the wingman would not be counted.
2. (c) for a group of 4 the separation between two pairs would be allowed bigger and the leader of 4 can release the second pair in the same way as wingman.
2. (d) for a big groups 4/8 the leader can split them and direct to some locations, lets say he can allow they to fly in square 4/5 would not be considered separation and allow the second leader of 4 or pair to request to be in some area so the separation would be allowed.

I think this would make a game-play much more interesting and mission oriented also new ranks can be added like
rank as leader of 2/4/8

Also the wingmans and leaders would be able to rank manually their commanders and wingmans - give them scores. Also the overall rank of leaders can be given such that better leaders would attract more wingmans.

The skills of the formation leader are in general very different from the single player and it would add more diversity to the game.

[ink]

you sure we are playing the same game

"95% fly on their own"<-------------this is so far from correct it is 

at the exact opposite of what is said......


very few..... maybe 5% fly on their own....



what you want is more reward for flying in formation.....



sorry but a big -1

[artik]

"95% fly on their own"<-------------this is so far from correct it is  

Ok I'll explain myself better.

Most of players do not fly on their own, they fly in furballs. There are 10-20 planes of different kinds fly together, warning each other cleaning each other time to time - prove: take a look on a verity of aircrafts in a typical furball over a field on the main arena.

There almost no players that actually fly in pair - a wingman concept - fly the same plane protect each other engage and disengage together.

It is very uncommon to met such groups that work together. And in general if the pair works well it is super hard to beat them.

Of course the players in general cooperate - otherwise it would be impossible to capture fields   on the other hand they do not work as dedicated combat units.

[caldera]

you sure we are playing the same game

That's what I was about to say.



Rook horde:



Bish horde:



Nit horde:

[Tinkles]

Ok I'll explain myself better.

Most of players do not fly on their own, they fly in furballs. There are 10-20 planes of different kinds fly together, warning each other cleaning each other time to time - prove: take a look on a verity of aircrafts in a typical furball over a field on the main arena.

There almost no players that actually fly in pair - a wingman concept - fly the same plane protect each other engage and disengage together.

It is very uncommon to met such groups that work together. And in general if the pair works well it is super hard to beat them.

Of course the players in general cooperate - otherwise it would be impossible to capture fields   on the other hand they do not work as dedicated combat units.

There are squads that take this to heart and fly in formation and have wingmen. Those that take the time to do this and fight like this, that is in itself a reward. 

While I think that it would be nice to see more people fly in "wingman style", it could also cause problems down the road.

Tinkles

 

[gyrene81]

agree with Ink...big NO

the idea is a lame attempt at making people do what the op thinks they should do. and i have bad news for the op, for a majority of the players, winging up with someone isn't going to make them better. there are enough cherry pickers and dog pilers, don't add to the problem.

[Paladin3]

There are squads that take this to heart and fly in formation and have wingmen. Those that take the time to do this and fight like this, that is in itself a reward. 

While I think that it would be nice to see more people fly in "wingman style", it could also cause problems down the road.

Tinkles

 

I agree with this mostly, although I am fascinated by the concept. We fly in formation and work hard to take everyone home that we took off with, working in formation and in wingman tactics the whole time. It is rewarding. I would much rather land no kills but bring my flight back safely with kills of their own than to land a bunch and have them not land. That is just how I like to fly.

[Zacherof]

Sometimes flying as a squad will achieve many kls wich in itself kills the battle





Btw no

[icepac]

I usually "fly on my own" because the guys yelling on channel about help for a base take always seem to forget to bring a bomber or even bombs........or troops.

I bring what they need from a different direction and flank instead of coming straight from the nearest field and usually end up getting troops or bombs to the field that the 19 light fighters who asked for bombs/troops seem  unable to even reach.

[earl1937]

I agree with this mostly, although I am fascinated by the concept. We fly in formation and work hard to take everyone home that we took off with, working in formation and in wingman tactics the whole time. It is rewarding. I would much rather land no kills but bring my flight back safely with kills of their own than to land a bunch and have them not land. That is just how I like to fly.

  I can verify this comment and I would add this: Paladin3 and his squad mates can make a perfect "finger 4" takeoff from a standing start and can continue that to what ever altitude they are going to! I have witnessed this my self. Not everyone, but a lot of people who fly in this "game" have trouble with controlling their position in formations because of lack of experience and training. Get you a partner, have him do a standard rate turn, say, to the left, then practice putting your cockpit even with his vertical stab and rudder and 50 feet below him. Its all a matter of working throttle and flight controls to hold your position.

[bustr]

We fly ww2 fighters like it was ww1.

Same problem in ww2 with any fighter versus fighter engagement past a certain point. Chaotic furballing at higher speeds.

I flew with the old 56th. The need to learn and fly formation was paramount to successful P47 sweeps. But, eventually a small number of the 56th didn't need the rest of us to furball 1 vs 3-5 with a Jug. If anything our wing tactics just slowed them down for getting kills and we became a liability in a fight to them. So they lone wolfed. Or we became unknowing bait for them. I think YUCCA really took me along with him to furball spits in the grass with D40 to use me for bait. He always swore it was to improve my ACM............

Only problem this year is after the annual FSO late ETO big bomber missions last year. Everyone started flying into fights as high alt hoards making it time consuming waiting for them to finally come down and fight. But, they stay alive a lot longer before having to fight. Things were better when NOE hoards were the norm before we peer pressured everyone into "NOE=SISSY". You could get at them quicker because they never flew above 12k when they popped up. Back then "ALT=SISSY". Today alt is being defended as smart tactics. But, no one is learning to fight in their alt monkey mutual protection late war monster mode, and get chewed up when they finally stand and fight. You see the truth of this every time the LWMA gets closed for an evening in the then crowded MWMA and they have to fight.

The DA monsters have always been arrogantly correct about 80% of the MA. But, correct. No matter if the mutual support group is hiding below radar or hiding above 12k. Most of them are cannon fodder when they finally get into the fight with no place to run. So wing tactics at the same time is asking players to learn basic ACM or they are worthless other than to show off their wing flying skill.

A lame fighter pilot in terms of skill then compounds that lame if he has to be a reliable member of a combat team. Your best wingman is a skilled vet who understands being the shooter position and being the wingman. Other wise you are stuck thinking for two wondering where your wingman is when you need to pay attention to your fight. Biggest problem with flying fighters is you want to land kills. Not many really want to enable others to kill things they think they could themselves. Compound that with our chronic game ADHD fixation on killing the red guys. SQUIRREL!!   

Miss the vTard NOE hoards yet? At least you didn't fly low slow circles waiting for them to come down and fight. 

[Zacherof]

Bust that's when we go 10k above them and force em down to waiting friends 

[Puma44]

  I can verify this comment and I would add this: Paladin3 and his squad mates can make a perfect "finger 4" takeoff from a standing start and can continue that to what ever altitude they are going to! I have witnessed this my self. Not everyone, but a lot of people who fly in this "game" have trouble with controlling their position in formations because of lack of experience and training. Get you a partner, have him do a standard rate turn, say, to the left, then practice putting your cockpit even with his vertical stab and rudder and 50 feet below him. Its all a matter of working throttle and flight controls to hold your position.

Earl makes a good point.  It seems there is a mindset that flying along in the vicinity of another aircraft is "flying formation" or "winging up" when in reality it just "same way, same day".  Formation flying takes continued practice to do it properly.  Air Combat Maneuvering "ACM" is an advanced form of formation flying that requires even more practice and commitment to do it well and effectively.  ACM is the coordinated use of BFM by multiple pair of fighters with the end effect being a force multiplier.   

[Vudu15]

I love flying alone its where I find the best fights, more of a free hunter roll but its what I prefer, even during scenarios I have my guys spread way outside any normal formations 1K in all directions with my line of travel.

[ink]

Earl makes a good point.  It seems there is a mindset that flying along in the vicinity of another aircraft is "flying formation" or "winging up" when in reality it just "same way, same day".  Formation flying takes continued practice to do it properly.  Air Combat Maneuvering "ACM" is an advanced form of formation flying that requires even more practice and commitment to do it well and effectively.  ACM is the coordinated use of BFM by multiple pair of fighters with the end effect being a force multiplier.   

that would imply 1 "pilot" can not perform ACM...which is obviously not true.