AH community: Tarzan or Lord of the Flies?

[guncrasher]

even though I want to kill him/her I don't want an "easy" kill I want to earn my kills or at the minimum

isnt somebody less skilled than you an easy kill?   you can justify it by saying that you have practice numerous times to earn it.  but an easy kill is still an easy kill?

but what you do has nothing to do with honor but more for desire on how to play the game.


semp

[Brooke]

To me, the environment seems about the same over the years (very fun), but I was never much involved in MA missions or deeply involved in squad activities, so I wouldn't know if that aspect has changed.  Late nights are a bit low on number of players -- I hope that picks back up if our economy can get growing well again (I have a lot of opinions about that).

The feeling that "it's just not the same as it was back in XXXX" is one that people often get after they've been around for some years.  This was the case in Air Warrior, too.  People in 1993 thought that it just wasn't the same as it was back in 1990.  People in 2000 thought that it just wasn't the same as it was back in 1995.  And so on.  I think that what really happens is that, while things overall are mostly like they were (or better than they were), the part of the player base familiar to any given player eventually drifts off over time, and so for that player, camradery etc. seem to fade.

But think of it.  If this process were really true, given that online flying started in 1988 and that comments like the above started several years later, whatever you personally think of as The Golden Times would never even have been there (unless your golden times were 1988, of course).

[ink]

isnt somebody less skilled than you an easy kill?   you can justify it by saying that you have practice numerous times to earn it.  but an easy kill is still an easy kill?

but what you do has nothing to do with honor but more for desire on how to play the game.


semp

Far to the east ruled the Samurai, mystic warrior class Honorable brave, dark armored man, donning hideous mask 700 years of reigning Japan, the masters of attack Dominators of the isle of dragons, fearsome military caste

In battle no prisoners for the enemy, noble self-sacrifice Crooked crowns sentenced to die, pay the bloody price Sacred rites held close by the fighters, no place for disgrace Taught to stand with dignity while staring in death's face

Honor even in death, soldiers glorified The dagger plunges deep, slashes side to side Honor even in death, disgrace is defied The end they never fear, give their life before their
Honor even in death, soldiers glorified The dagger plunges deep, slashes side to side Honor even in death, disgrace is defied The end they never fear, give their life before their pride

Gracefully, with steady hand He takes the dagger that lays before him Collects his thoughts for the last time And plunges the dirge from left to right
No sign of pain on his face With the final, cut withdraws the blade Loyal companion by his side Lifts the sword to help him die Lightning flash, one swift blow Honor is done, warriors head rolls

In a mans glory, his spirit is stored, his very being inside Dignity respected, courage is shown by his ritual suicide No room for dishonor in Hari Kari's dagger gashing side to side Under the rising sun, the core is exposed, to reveal a new life
Honor even in death, soldiers glorified The dagger plunges deep, slashes side to side Honor even in death, disgrace is defied The end they never fear, give their life before their
Honor even in death, soldiers glorified The dagger plunges deep, slashes side to side Honor even in death, disgrace is defied The end they never fear, give their life before their pride

 FLOTSAM AND JETSAM - NO PLACE FOR DISGRACE

[Ack-Ack]

Where is the honor in shooting someone in the back?  After all, in a fighter engagement, fighter pilots are taught to maneuver so that their best chance of winning the engagement by positioning themselves on the bandits six, or the prefered method to bounce an unaware bandit.

Remember the phrase, "Beware of the Hun in the Sun".

ack-ack

[The Fugitive]

I don't buy that things are designed to be unfair in the game. If anything, things are designed to be completely fair in AHII. What you're describing is unfairness by design. Circumstance is another thing. We've all logged on when circumstances created more of a challenge at one time or another. Maybe even an 'insurmountable' one (depending on what your 'fun goal' was and how other players impacted it).

But driving away player base because of said circumstance? This game would have died many deaths since Beta if that were the case.

Having said that ... I love your cartoon commentaries (very much so):

Such as:

(Image removed from quote.)

I think such creativity and sense of humor would go much farther than what other players are apparently frustrated into doing. I only wish more of the player base could see them.

That leaves behaving like grown-ups.

 

I didn't say anything about it being designed unfair, neither in the game nor my analogy. The NFL and the game of football is unchanged in the analogy, all that change was was one team took advantage of a loop hole and so became the dominate force. The design of the game never changed. The is why they added a cap system to football, so a team couldn't become the overwhelming force. That way there was still challenge and skill required as well as an and out come to games that was NOT written in stone.

In our game what you or I or Wiley find fun or available in this game is not what we are talking about here. "WE" all know where to look for the fun. We know what we are getting into when we up at a vulched field, of the chances or the fight being gone if we up a field over. The newbs on the other hand don't KNOW these things. We have learned them after years of playing the game. They on the other hand are here more than likely for 2 weeks and figure out only that the dar bars are were the action is. Going there they are either crushed by overwhelming numbers, of are in the horde and spend their time chasing a single con around with 20 other guys. Neither much fun, and one very frustrating. How long do you think they will try it out?

Now look at a few tweaks in game play. Longer fronts with many smaller battles. Same number of players but with the forces both defense and attack spread out there are more targets to go around. There is a chance the defenders will push back the attack....not just slow it down a bit. The attacks have to learn new skills and so find variations in game play, dive bombing turns to level bombers that launch 20 minutes ahead of the fighters to arrive at the same time to coordinate the attack. GV's spawning in to help suppress the field. Higher alt fights because buffs have fighter support at alt. Now planes the are hanger queens are used more. All could come about by forcing the break up of hordes, or adding incentives to lure players away from horde style play to a more tactical/strategic type of game play.  How many people would stay on after their 2 weeks to play this game?

[Oldman731]

Do not salute if someone HOd/vulched and you did not have a good fight. If the same player gets you another time in a decent fight salute or send a private message and praise the guy for having a decent fight instead of a head on or something like that.

This is excellent advice.

- oldman

[Arlo]

I didn't say anything about it being designed unfair, neither in the game nor my analogy. The NFL and the game of football is unchanged in the analogy, all that change was was one team took advantage of a loop hole and so became the dominate force.

"NFL no longer has a cap and one team buys up all the best players."

For one team to 'buy up all the best players' the dynamic of the draft (which, essentially is a part of the game) would have to eliminate the rotating bid, allowing that team to unfairly monopolize by just being the first to pick and keep on picking.

That makes it a bad analogy. Neither the Bishops, the Knights or the Rooks have a monopoly on either the most or the best players. Nor do specific squadrons. The dynamics of this game, good or bad, are player driven.

I'm sure more than one player didn't stay in the game after 2 weeks of 'bad experiences.' I'm sure more than one did. And they could even have been the exact same experiences. That's where patience, character and maturity come in - whether we're talking about the two-weeker or the 520-weeker.

[The Fugitive]

"NFL no longer has a cap and one team buys up all the best players."

For one team to 'buy up all the best players' the dynamic of the draft (which, essentially is a part of the game) would have to eliminate the rotating bid, allowing that team to unfairly monopolize by just being the first to pick and keep on picking.

That makes it a bad analogy. Neither the Bishops, the Knights or the Rooks have a monopoly on either the most or the best players. Nor do specific squadrons. The dynamics of this game, good or bad, are player driven.

I'm sure more than one player didn't stay in the game after 2 weeks of 'bad experiences.' I'm sure more than one did. And they could even have been the exact same experiences. That's where patience, character and maturity come in - whether we're talking about the two-weeker or the 520-weeker.

Ya lets go there. You don't have a leg to stand on so you are grasping at straws.

I didn't say anything about a draft. Any player in and sport is able to go where ever he/she wants as long as they are NOT under contract. So In my analogy ALL players just happen to be out of contract and so sign with one team. Happy now? 

There is nothing wrong with my analogy. The only problem with it for you is it seems to hit a little too close to the truth. I said that one "team" has an overwhelming force. In our game they aren't even all that skilled. What they lack in skill (best players) they more than make up in numbers. The point still is as a newbi your either crushed by the horde, or join one and soon get bored being the 10th guy in on a single con. Sure some few get past that and learn that there are other ways to play and leave the hordes behind. But what is that ratio? How many leave compared to how many stay? As the numbers of the arena populations seem to be dropping, I'm guessing more leave than stay.

I'm sure they are not leaving because this game is just too darn much fun.

[Arlo]

Ya lets go there. You don't have a leg to stand on so you are grasping at straws.

<snip>

There is nothing wrong with my analogy.

<snip>

The only problem with it for you is it seems to hit a little too close to the truth.

<snip>

I'm guessing more leave than stay.

<snip>.

Whoa. Whether I agree that your analogy is a good one or not, I'm not sure where all this 'leg to stand on/grasping at straws/close to the truth' emotional rant is coming from. Did you feel like I was somehow trying to pick a fight with you? Like I said, I like your cartoon commentaries and I certainly didn't expect you to come unhinged over something as mild as this. No, seriously. This surprised me. But we can certainly agree on one thing. I agree that you're guessing.

[SAJ73]

My thoughts


Do not salute if someone HOd/vulched and you did not have a good fight. If the same player gets you another time in a decent fight salute or send a private message and praise the guy for having a decent fight instead of a head on or something like that.

+1

This is just the way I play.
But I must however add that I might not be able to salute everyone after every good fight I have, if I am constantly busy fighting I might simply forget to throw out the salutes.. 

But as a general rule I don't give out salutes to people that kill me sitting on the runway or shoot me straight off the merge. But I don't get hoed much anymore when I think about it, I simply learned how to avoid the head on by giving them a hard angle at me so if they make the shot it is actually worth the salute.. 

[bustr]

Far to the east ruled the Samurai, mystic warrior class Honorable brave, dark armored man, donning hideous mask 700 years of reigning Japan, the masters of attack Dominators of the isle of dragons, fearsome military caste

In battle no prisoners for the enemy, noble self-sacrifice Crooked crowns sentenced to die, pay the bloody price Sacred rites held close by the fighters, no place for disgrace Taught to stand with dignity while staring in death's face

Honor even in death, soldiers glorified The dagger plunges deep, slashes side to side Honor even in death, disgrace is defied The end they never fear, give their life before their
Honor even in death, soldiers glorified The dagger plunges deep, slashes side to side Honor even in death, disgrace is defied The end they never fear, give their life before their pride

Gracefully, with steady hand He takes the dagger that lays before him Collects his thoughts for the last time And plunges the dirge from left to right
No sign of pain on his face With the final, cut withdraws the blade Loyal companion by his side Lifts the sword to help him die Lightning flash, one swift blow Honor is done, warriors head rolls

In a mans glory, his spirit is stored, his very being inside Dignity respected, courage is shown by his ritual suicide No room for dishonor in Hari Kari's dagger gashing side to side Under the rising sun, the core is exposed, to reveal a new life
Honor even in death, soldiers glorified The dagger plunges deep, slashes side to side Honor even in death, disgrace is defied The end they never fear, give their life before their
Honor even in death, soldiers glorified The dagger plunges deep, slashes side to side Honor even in death, disgrace is defied The end they never fear, give their life before their pride

 FLOTSAM AND JETSAM - NO PLACE FOR DISGRACE

When you see this in person it's very messy, not romantic, especially if you don't have a kaishakunin to put an end to the whole thing quickly. No romance, no heroic anything. Just a dead person in a big pool of blood.

This is a kiddy game, not grown men selling a romantic image of slitting your own guts to prove how stupid you are.

So are talking about junshi, seppuku, or harakiri? All schools in japan teach a gokyo of which one is the junto. You learn to be the kaishaku and perfect your kubikiri. Not like anyone has commited seppuku in modern times since Yukio Mishima. Most schools in japan and america have a cleaned up copy of his last video. Some make it required watching by deshi to take the romantic BS out dying since it's permanent.

[zack1234]

[
Am I wrong in this? If I am not, how do we restore a higher expectation within the community?

For starters, the prominence of key squads that set the tone needs to be restored. More than anything this seems to be what we need. It is not easy to build culture out of chaos but I think we need to do this. Possibly a better culture could help us retain the 2-weekers?

 
[/quote]

Key squads?

Gibberish again!

Big egos who think they are better than everyone else

I remember my first two week the guy know who he is followed me around for 20 minutes check sixing  me and he was a top stick

There is nothing up with the Knights its you who has the problem

Jayro does missions and Chris and the other Prussians do good base taking events all the time

I am awesome as well!

[drmoo]

What the V dudes did ... as well as the Alchemist and other large squads did was to take large numbers of unskilled players and rolled base after base. This works very well as there is no way to stop such a large group. Players are not going together and sit in a tower 30+ strong in the off chance they will be in a position to intercept a mission. Even if only 10 of those 30+ hit their target you can make it work. Had the V dudes or any other large group used tactics and split their forces to try and take 2 or more bases at the same time, there would have been chance to defend in some places and maybe stop one prong of the attack, or more if the defensive side could get organized quick enough.

hmm alchemist have #1 rank fighter pilot they seem like nice guys help out other bish squads and can roll maps at will they have taken a break at base rolling 4 a few days and wacthed the rook horde maps oh but they dont horde lol 

[moot]

there is no way to stop such a large group.

3-5 friends (that fly with each other enough that it's mostly all muscle memory) in 262s + discipline.  You slow down the swarm by disrupting it, and/or hunt their goons and/or manage to find their mission maker's rhythm and nail em on next mission take off (opinion: it's better to hit at TO than RTB.. RTB will pump their righteousness, TO rather makes em feel pwnt).  The 262's speed allows this easily.

It doesn't take long for many of the swarm to get sick of it..  When someone shows up in jets you've got a good fight on your hands, that if you and your friends play right (discipline) can stay mostly out of reach of those "unskilled" swarmers even right under their noses.

If nothing else, delaying the swarms by interference gives the rest of the team more time to ready defense.

[zack1234]

Horde is stopped straight away when you move to another base and don't up to pad their score

Same people in game are always there to defend bases and those in for the score keep well away

You pay your $15 and play your game.

How many good sticks have gone because they stopped having fun and went for the score

Inks gibberish about the Japanese cutting each others heads off and killing themselves when they fell off their horses and felt embarrassed made me laugh

They were blood thirsty savages who treated their own with contempt

"Your cruel to your own before your cruel to others"