Unperk the F4U-1C

[Saxman]

Time to settle this once and for all:

Unperk the -4!

 

[titanic3]

Time to settle this once and for all:

Unperk the -4!

 

An arena full of P51, -4, -1C and Spit16. Sounds fun. 

not really.

[Karnak]

Time to settle this once and for all:

Unperk the -4!

 

Heh.  I know you're joking, but a serious answer is that I'd again suggest comparing the respective stats as a perk fighter of the Spit XIV and F4U-4.

I will stress that if the Spit XIV had ever put up the kinds of usage and K/D numbers than the F4U-1C and F4U-4 put up I would never have advocated unperking it and would have been right there with Krusty advocating against it being unperked when anybody suggested unperking it.

[Patches1]

Wow! Interesting responses! 

Thanks all for the interesting and civil discussion.

 

[whiteman]

An arena full of P51, -4, -1C and Spit16. Sounds fun. 

not really.

AVA had a month long war were we got to pick our planes based on our sides points earned. that was pretty much the last week of the war for the Allies.

[Tinkles]

Heh.  I know you're joking, but a serious answer is that I'd again suggest comparing the respective stats as a perk fighter of the Spit XIV and F4U-4.

I will stress that if the Spit XIV had ever put up the kinds of usage and K/D numbers than the F4U-1C and F4U-4 put up I would never have advocated unperking it and would have been right there with Krusty advocating against it being unperked when anybody suggested unperking it.

I think for things like this HTC should announce a specific day (in this case) that the f4u1c (Chog) is unperked for 24 hours.

Then take a % statistic analysis of how much that plane was flown out of all the sorties in that period. Then re-perk it.

If it doesn't go up much, then OK, think about unperking it for real.

But

If it goes up say, 15-20%+ of all sorties. Then perk the SOB and spam all those who said it wouldn't change much, to make sure they get the message


Tinkles

<<S>>

[dirtdart]

Have an unperked day = Lord of the Flies.

I think the perk system is just fine. The C-hog being perked is just fine. If you look at the CV as a field, only two rides off of that are perked. Both of which as described above are uber, within that construct.

Production numbers should not influence the perk system. Limitations within a country and their ability to produce should not bear in mind. Take the TA-152. Great BZ, great high alt bomber killer, terrible furballer (majority of MA fights). No reason to perk it.

I also disagree with mild perks on the most common rides. This would also discourage play and as a community we need to keep in mind player recruitment and retention, I would hate to see this game go the way of the Dodo. Most guys log on, jump into a mustang, childhood dream achieved.

If anything, I would like to see ENY go away. I do not think it influences players all that much. When one side is overwhelming the other, the last thing to affect them is limiting their rides. When you have a cloud of 110s over a field, it is just as deadly as a cloud of U4s. ENY has never made me jump sides, if we are winning the war, I know 25 perkies are headed my way, anyway.

 

[Karnak]

Have an unperked day = Lord of the Flies.

Just means lots of Me262s and a day to avoid for many.

[Greebo]

I don't think ENY should go. It may not influence many players to jump to an outnumbered side but it at least gives the outnumbered players more of a fighting chance. It is a lot easier for someone in say a P-51 to survive vs a horde of 110s than it is vs a horde of 51s.

The C-Hog's perk rating is fine as it is IMO.

[-ammo-]

I highly doubt it has changed in a way that will massively affect the impact of an unperked F4U-1C.

Oh, I agree it won't hit 20+% of the kills, but it will blow anything now, including the P-51D, out of the water as it claims first place.

It is just too good and the guns, which you are undervaluing, are a major part of that.  It kills fast because of how potent its guns are and the ammo supply is rivaled only by the much slower N1K2-J and much less agile Fw190A-8.  The much larger and less agile Mosquito Mk VI carries significantly less ammo.  All three of those also carry significantly less ordnance.


Once again, I ask you to look at the relative performance of the Spitfire Mk XIV, that you are using as a comparison, and the F4U-1C as perk planes.  Seeing as you claim neither would be more dominating than the other how do you explain the vast gulf between their respective stats as perk planes?

I won't argue much further as I have stated my thoughts already.  We live in a world where we can disagree - <S>

I do want to clarify a couple of points however.  I think the Spit 14 is a better a2a platform than the C-hog.  I would surmise that a test with several 1 on 1 duels, at different altitudes would substantiate that claim.  I would be more than happy to test that out.  Now, overall the C-hog is a better MA plane given its role as an excellent FB. Those Hispanos and the ordinance it can carry would make it the number one choice for destroying a base/town.

Lastly, maybe I stated something that was misleading, but I am definitely not undervaluing the Hispano cannon.  It is without a doubt (IMO) most effective gun system in the game for overall use.  Exterior ballistics for that thing is awesome.

[bozon]

I also disagree with mild perks on the most common rides. This would also discourage play and as a community we need to keep in mind player recruitment and retention, I would hate to see this game go the way of the Dodo. Most guys log on, jump into a mustang, childhood dream achieved.

The -C is perked partially because it was rare in real life, not common. Had it been free (like it was long time ago) it will become the "standard" F4U in the MA, instead of the -1 -1A and D that we currently see a nice distribution of. In the MA CHogs are not rare. In any major CV action you can find 1 or 2 of them in the air. What is the point of perk points if there are no perked planes?
The perking of the -C is a success. My feeling is that their fraction out of the total F4U usage is of the order of their historical fraction. On this basis I support a light perk to the P47-M/N, because the D models have disappeared except for some D40 bomb trucks.

I am not in favor of perking the P-51D unless a part of a big revision of the whole perk system - that will not happen. By the way, there are TWO P-51 models in the game. The B is in no danger of being perked, decent ENY, and is a VERY capable fighter.

If anything, I would like to see ENY go away. I do not think it influences players all that much. When one side is overwhelming the other, the last thing to affect them is limiting their rides. When you have a cloud of 110s over a field, it is just as deadly as a cloud of U4s. ENY has never made me jump sides, if we are winning the war, I know 25 perkies are headed my way, anyway.

It does not influence players because they prefer to ***** about perk costs, but fly nothing else then ENY 5 planes. Every single ENY5 model has an older brother with significantly higher ENY that is almost as capable. LA5, P51B, Spit8/9 etc.

For the life of me I can't understand the issue with perk tags. Perks do not prevent you from flying a plane, only limit how much you can fly it - or more accurately, how much you can die in it. Remember, all perked rides are free if you land them. Then, flying ENY>10 planes will net you lots of perks. With ENY>20 planes a decent player can land in a single sortie more than the 25 perks you get for winning the map...

My issue with ENY limiter is that it limits me from rolling 262s to fight other 262s. I dont care about the perk cost. My perks are piling up and I have no way to spend them - to the attention of those in spit16s and La7s, this is what happens when your main rides are Moss6, P47D11/25 and F6F. The other day I would have paid 900 perks to roll a 262 inspite of the ENY limiter to fight the red 262s that kept a constant presence over Rookland, enjoying the reduced perk cost. My fellow Rooks ignored my pleads to logout or switch sides so I could roll one...  

[Randy1]

How about feb 29th be unperked day for everything?

[Wiley]

The C hog needs a perk IMO.  It's bad enough that it's got 4 of the hardest hitting easiest to use guns in the game.  Tack on the versatility of the airframe to BnZ well, or engage hoverflaps and do decently in a turnfight.  Add into that mix the long clip it has.  It's reasonable to have a small perk for it.

IMHO the -4 is a less unbalancing plane than the -C.

Spit 14 vs C hog in a duel isn't really a fair measure of overall capability and impact on the arena.  Imagine being under a half dozen Spit 14's coming in high to your field versus seeing a half dozen C hogs doing the same thing.  I know I'd rather be under the Spits, myself.

Wiley.

[moot]

I do want to clarify a couple of points however.  I think the Spit 14 is a better a2a platform than the C-hog.  I would surmise that a test with several 1 on 1 duels, at different altitudes would substantiate that claim.  I would be more than happy to test that out.  

But you have to carry out this test with joe sixpack MA players.

[Karnak]

But you have to carry out this test with joe sixpack MA players.

Better yet four vs four Joe Sixpack MA players.