Up this week: Battle of Dieppe (Operation Jubilee)

[Mister Fork]

(From Wikipedia)
The Dieppe Raid, also known as the Battle of Dieppe, Operation Rutter and, later, Operation Jubilee, was a Second World War Allied attack on the German-occupied port of Dieppe. The raid took place on the northern coast of France on 19 August 1942. The assault began at 5:00 a.m. and by 10:50 a.m. the Allied commanders were forced to call a retreat. Over 6,000 infantrymen, predominantly Canadian, were supported by a Canadian Armoured regiment and a strong force of Royal Navy and smaller Royal Air Force landing contingents.

Objectives included seizing and holding a major port for a short period, both to prove it was possible and to gather intelligence from prisoners and captured materials, including naval intelligence in a hotel in town and a radar installation on the cliffs above it. Although the primary objective was not met and secondary successes were relatively few, some knowledge was gained while assessing the German responses. The Allies also wanted to destroy coastal defences, port structures and all strategic buildings. Due to the failure to secure Dieppe this objective was not met in any systematic sense. The raid had the added objective of providing a morale boost to the troops, Resistance, and general public, while assuring the Soviet Union of the commitment of the United Kingdom and the United States.

A total of 3,623 of the 6,086 allied forces men (almost 60%) who made it ashore were either killed, wounded, or captured. The RAF failed to lure the Luftwaffe into open battle and lost 96 aircraft compared to 48 lost by the Luftwaffe. The Royal Navy lost 33 landing craft and one destroyer. The events at Dieppe later influenced preparations for the North African (Operation Torch) and Normandy landings (Operation Overlord).

Forces

Hurri IIC/D
Spitfire V
Boston

vs

Bf 109F-4
Fw-190A-5
Ju-88 (sub for Do-217)

Ground:
LVT's (sub for Churchill + troop landers)
Jeeps

vs

Panzer IVF (they were really there - ouch)
Sdkfz 251

[Karnak]

Spitfire IXs (of the exact type of Mk IX in AH actually) were also there.  It was really the first significant use of the Mk IX.  Most were Mk Vs though so the IX would need to be controlled in some way.

[dedalos]

The V will own the set up as it is. Throwing the IX in there will make it unplayable for the German side.  History or not, it is still a game.

[Easyscor]

Unplayable? That's just a trivial detail. It doesn't matter if it would run off the people who are enjoying this setup, especially to someone who never visits the arena anyway. 

He does catch an error occasionally though.

[dedalos]

Unplayable? That's just a trivial detail. It doesn't matter if it would run off the people who are enjoying this setup, especially to someone who never visits the arena anyway. 

He does catch an error occasionally though.

huh?  I m confused. I expressed my opinion but I have no clue what you are saying.

[Karnak]

huh?  I m confused. I expressed my opinion but I have no clue what you are saying.

He is tossing an insult at me.  No worries.

Last I checked, the German aircraft did just fine against RAF aircraft, but maybe that has changed.  As I said, the Mk IX would have needed to have been limited as there were many more Mk Vs there than Mk IXs and I am not sure the CMs have the tools to limit it easily.  If they don't, by far the better option is to not include it and stick with the Mk Vs.  It sounds like the Luftwaffe needs all the help it can get so perhaps historically inaccurate Mk Vs make more sense for balance purposes.

[Easyscor]

<snip>

Last I checked, the German aircraft did just fine against RAF aircraft, but maybe that has changed.  As I said, the Mk IX would have needed to have been limited as there were many more Mk Vs there than Mk IXs and I am not sure the CMs have the tools to limit it easily.  If they don't, by far the better option is to not include it and stick with the Mk Vs.  It sounds like the Luftwaffe needs all the help it can get so perhaps historically inaccurate Mk Vs make more sense for balance purposes.

The Spit 9 was never a balanced setup against a 109f4. With only the Spit 5 in this setup, it boils down to the pilot. This setup is probably the second best ETO setup available behind the Spit 1 vs the 109e4. You have to go to a PTO setup to find the next best matchup.

Karnak, I don't think there is a single staffer that hasn't invited you to play in the AvA. If you'd spent any time in there this last week, you would never again propose adding a Spit 9 in this setup. The designer takes a look at the planes that were there and selects a balanced planeset for his week. I did the same thing when I ran Normandy! last month. There were no Spits or P51s to name a few holes, and I received two comments that it was a good choice as they would have unbalanced the setup. But you've heard all these explanation before and my impression is that you choose to ignore them.

I meant it when I said you sometimes spot errors, and those occasions are appreciated.

[dedalos]

Oups, I thought you were talking about me lol

[Karnak]

The Spit 9 was never a balanced setup against a 109f4. With only the Spit 5 in this setup, it boils down to the pilot. This setup is probably the second best ETO setup available behind the Spit 1 vs the 109e4. You have to go to a PTO setup to find the next best matchup.

Karnak, I don't think there is a single staffer that hasn't invited you to play in the AvA. If you'd spent any time in there this last week, you would never again propose adding a Spit 9 in this setup. The designer takes a look at the planes that were there and selects a balanced planeset for his week. I did the same thing when I ran Normandy! last month. There were no Spits or P51s to name a few holes, and I received two comments that it was a good choice as they would have unbalanced the setup. But you've heard all these explanation before and my impression is that you choose to ignore them.

I meant it when I said you sometimes spot errors, and those occasions are appreciated.

My mistake.  I thought the Fw190A-5 was included in this setup.  It is listed up there.  I do understand the need to balance the settings and in both my earlier posts included qualification statements indicating that I understood why the Spitfire Mk IX might not be included.

Clearly just the Bf109F-4 would get trounced by the Spitfire Mk IX.  Also, as I said from the start, it would have needed to have been controlled as uncontrolled it is obvious the Allies would have only used the Spitfire Mk IX, and that would not be appropriate at all.

As detailed by Mister Fork the Germans ought to have kicked RAF butt this setup as both German fighters are markedly superior to the Spitfire Mk Vb, keeping in mind that the RAF would have been using Spitfire Mk Vcs by the time of Dieppe which means twice the cannon ammo and perhaps a better engine as on the AH1 Spitfire Mk V.

To me it sounds like this setup was caught between a rock and a hard place.  Due to a lack of a method to have limited numbers of Spitfire Mk IXs it was either going to heavily favor the Germans by ranging the Fw190A-5 and Bf109F-4 against the woefully out of date Spitfire Mk Vb or it was going to be all Spitfire Mk IXs against the Germans.  Of the options actually available, from what you are saying, the staff chose the best option of two bad options.

[jimson]

 Due to a lack of a method to have limited numbers of Spitfire Mk IXs i

How cool it would be if we had this capability.

[Chilli]

How cool it would be if we had this capability.

Hello all,

I think this is where staged missions would be a great help in the inclusion of vehicles that add to the realism and time table of the event but also leave the players with a competitive setup.  I was always amazed at the amount of thought and planning that went into running these on weekly basis.  I would have to say a quite dedicated volunteer staff. 

As for balance, at first glance I thought the Boston was going to dominate the series    So much for my planning skillz  

As it is    But in some future staged mission version of the setup ...... possibly 

Basically, as an ongoing week long battle, I do believe that balance has to remain top priority, but OMG what fun it would be and join in to a full blown mission with precise objectives and targets as well as rookie AI pilots IN THE AVA!!!!   

[jimson]

Hello all,

I think this is where staged missions would be a great help in the inclusion of vehicles that add to the realism and time table of the event but also leave the players with a competitive setup.  I was always amazed at the amount of thought and planning that went into running these on weekly basis.  I would have to say a quite dedicated volunteer staff. 

As for balance, at first glance I thought the Boston was going to dominate the series    So much for my planning skillz  

As it is    But in some future staged mission version of the setup ...... possibly 

Basically, as an ongoing week long battle, I do believe that balance has to remain top priority, but OMG what fun it would be and join in to a full blown mission with precise objectives and targets as well as rookie AI pilots IN THE AVA!!!!   

Coming soon my friend.