unperk the m4/76

[SmokinLoon]

The sensible way to apply a ENY and/or perk value to a tank is to take each of the attributes and put them on a slider.  Armor, main gun (AP/HE ability and reload rate), and speed are the biggest three attributes.  Then ammo load, MG's, turret twist rate, gun sight, turn radius/pivot ability, etc, can all be rated as well.

And just a reminder best to worst in AP ability in AH:

King Tiger/Jagdpanther
Firefly
Panther/Jagdpanzer IV L/70
Tiger
Panzer IV H
M4A3 (W) 76mm/M18
T34/85 (HVAP brings it up to par with M4/76 and Pzr IV H out to 1200 yards)
Panzer IV F2/Hetzer
M4A3 75mm/M3 Halftrack 75mm
T34/76 (HVAP brings it up to par with Pzr IV F2 out to 1200 yards)
M8
Panzer IV F1

The best HE platform in AH is the M4/75mm, hands down.  HE damage of 178 lbs, a reload rate of 4 seconds, the ability to carry 60 rockets (Calliope), and 97 rounds of ammo allow of it to make a town white flagged all by itself.  No reload needed.  Oh, and no worries about losing perk points if you get caught. 

FWIW, the King Tiger, Tiger, and T34/85 all do 234 lbs of HE damage; the M4/75mm does 178 lbs dmg; the Panther, all 3 Pzr IV's, LVT4, and T34/76 all do 156lbs of HE dmg; the Firefly does 140 lbs, the M4/76 and M18 do 103 lbs, and the M3 Greyhound does 31 lbs of HE damage.  Town buildings, ord bunkers, radar towers, fuel tanks, and barracks all need 312 lbs of damage to be destroyed. 

I have not confirmed the Jagdpanther, Jagdpanzer IV L/70, or the Hetzer but if they fall in line with their parent gun the values will be 234 lbs, 156 lbs, and 156 lbs, respectively.

Speeds are a entirely different category in itself.  We all know the speed demons (M18, M18, M3/75mm), and we all know the knuckledraggers (Firefly, Jagdpanzer IV L/70), and most of us know to exploit certain weaknesses in certain tanks (VERY slow turret traverse rate in Tiger, no turrets in Jadgpanzers, lack of long range ability in T34's, etc), so be careful in asking for a ENY or perk cost based on 1 or even 2 features.

[Karnak]

I thought the Hetzer had the same gun as the Panzer IV H not the IV F like you list there, SmokinLoon.

[Tank-Ace]

It is an assumption!   I've been around since 2005,, we had the tiger 1, the panzer, the T-34/76 , the ostwind and the M-8,  a Tiger 1 might cost you 50 perks, but you could make a couple of hundred perks a day running supplies and such,, those kinds of perks are not available today!  one way to help is to move the baseline,, another is to raise the ability to earn perks,, in another thread people were asking for the Tiger 2 to be more commonplace in the game instead of a concrete setting beast,,  if it were 50 to 60 perks,,   you would see more of them, at 200  they aren't going to be around all that much,,, 50 to 60 might be to low,, but I wouldn't charge more than 75   for the tiger 2 and work my way down from there, it is the top of the food chain on the ground
the order of things not including tank destroyers or anti aircraft guns.

Tiger 2
panther
tiger 1
firefly
T-34/85
M-4/76 --------------------center or zero as it stands IMHO!
panzer h
T-34/76
M-4/75
panzer f
M-8

 the T2 is probably going to stay on top,, unless the super Pershing somehow finds its way into the game,,  (  Oh please!!!!)  but even so,, it will probably still be close to the same perk wise
I'd have to see but I doubt you can earn enough perks in one day to get a tiger 2 ,,  not sure about that with the 262,I think I could,, and the B-29,, I know I can go make enough perks in one day to fly the 29!
 just a theory!

Just because the Tiger II is too expensive doesn't mean the rest are. Fix the problem without projecting it into the rest of the game.

The fact is that the Tiger II is powerful enough that losing one should hurt. However I also think GVs should be able to land when aircraft are within 3K, since even the fastest GV's cannot outrun even the slowest aircraft.

Also there is no reason for the list to be balanced between perked and free vehicles. And even if there were, the solution would be to ADD more free vehicles, not change the baseline für perking.

[Karnak]

This mainly looks like a poop throwing contest between Panzer fans who want the Panzer IV H to be the topdog free tank and Sherman fans who want the Sherman to be the topdog free tank.

Solution:

Raise the T-34/85's per price to 6.
Raise the M4A3(76)'s perk price to 3.
Perk the Panzer IV H at 2.
Perk the Panzer IV F at 1.

Top free tank is now the T-34/76, a tank produced in vast numbers and neither American nor German so both groups can go sulk.

 

[Tank-Ace]

What you fail to realize, as the numbers cannot tell you, is that people don't want to fly the IL2 because it has a terrible view. When it has the F3 view it was super-uber. I have used it against every tank in the game, and it kills them all. It does not get used enough, but it is very capable. Something your comments ignore.

Big difference between potential threat, and actual threat.   It's like the difference between potential and kinetic energy. What you're doing is the equivalent of flying at 20K at 150mph and saying "oh, I could be going so much faster than those guys on the deck"

In theory, yes, the Il-2 could be a significant threat. But the reality is that in the typical MA situation, it is half as threatening as the worst tank in the game.

[Tank-Ace]

This mainly looks like a poop throwing contest between Panzer fans who want the Panzer IV H to be the topdog free tank and Sherman fans who want the Sherman to be the topdog free tank.

Solution:

Raise the T-34/85's per price to 6.
Raise the M4A3(76)'s perk price to 3.
Perk the Panzer IV H at 2.
Perk the Panzer IV F at 1.

Top free tank is now the T-34/76, a tank produced in vast numbers and neither American nor German so both groups can go sulk.

 

Well, that WOULD let my future Panzer III be competitive.....

[SmokinLoon]

I thought the Hetzer had the same gun as the Panzer IV H not the IV F like you list there, SmokinLoon.

Indeed.  The Hetzer and Pzr IV H both have the L/48 barrel, while the F2 has the L/43 barrel.  Same ammo for all three.  My bad.  Thanks for the friendly "check your facts".   

[WWhiskey]

there is no reason for the list to be balanced between perked and free vehicles. And even if there were, the solution would be to ADD more free vehicles, not change the baseline für perking.

and it's not,, in the plane set,,   80 to 90 % of the planes in the game are not perked,, (estimated)  yet many are very capable planes, while others carry a higher ability for earning perks  so if the zero perk price started at the Panther,, the panzer would earn a great deal more perks than it does now, ( just an example),, , why can this not be set up in ENY value instead of perk price?  I don't know of any reason why a new player couldn't earn a good day or two worth of perks,, and then up a tiger 2?

  It's just what I think tho,, I listed the tanks in the order Of relevance as I see them,, not by weapon alone,, but by how and who operates them,, and why,,, as well as strength of armor and survivability, I think the T-34/85 is a better tank than the M-4/76,, but not good enough to need a perk price to operate in late war.

[Tank-Ace]

The issue is that you end up with a LOT of vehicles being at ENY 40, with some being ENY 35 on the current scale.

Compared to the Firefly, the Panzer IV H is ENY 35 or 40.

So what about the T-34/76, or the M8? They would be ENY 55 and 70, respectively.

Our ENY scale just doesn't go far enough to make raising the baseline practical. And beyond that, what the HELL are you drinking, to suggest unperking the Firefly?

Hands down, it has the 2nd best gun in the game.

[WWhiskey]

Yes it does,, but it is slow, and very vulnerable ,  it's gun is very unstable, slow rate of fire,, the sight lacks any markings for tracking moving tanks at any distance ,, I like it,, I try to use it,, and I die in it a lot more often than any other tank,, it's the P-38 of tanks!  ( I like the 38 to,, doesn't make it a good plane to be low and slow in).  And the firefly is always low and slow!

[bangsbox]

You're not using the firefly right. Try staying further back and only engage the snipers(and guys not moving). Moving tanks are for guys in the front line.

[WWhiskey]

You're not using the firefly right. Try staying further back and only engage the snipers(and guys not moving). Moving tanks are for guys in the front line.

I know ,,,  but it's sight package is not good for long distance shooting either,, along with its unstable gun and the fact that most tanks in game can kill it in one shot, maybe two , Its a guaranteed perk loser

so far this tour
 the firefly , 1.08
   M-4/76  , 1..46
   M-18    ,  1.44
  T-34/85 ,  1.45
  T-1       ,  2.53
  T-2      ,   10.62
panther   ,   3.29

  the M-4/76 and the firefly are relatively close to each other in kill to death ratio,, the M-4/76 is slightly better in every month I looked at except one,, and it was only  1.66 to 1.75
 the firefly may deserve a higher perk price because it was rare,, but not because of it;s ability to fight,, and as far as rare goes.. I'm not sure of any perk values set for that reason.