Author Topic: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs  (Read 3604 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2013, 10:17:54 PM »
Where do you see that allied pilots were allowed to up after axis pilots were denied? The latest time for an allied pilot to up posted by Vortex was 22:23:25 more than a full minute before Stampf disco'd. I stand by my previous statement, and I'm not going to go through the logs to try and substantiate your witch hunt. By your own CO's admission your guy was confused and didn't ask permission to up within the proper time frame.
My mistake, I was on my phone at the time of posting, and my phone doesn't like the events logs for some reason. I going on posts by Vortex. I see now that allied pilots were not allowed to up after German pilots were deined (so far as I have seen, still going through the logs).

However, depending on what you constitute as combat, they WERE allowed to up after combat was joined. Stampf discoed before the first recorded kill for the allies, and after the first death by the Germans. For the record, when was combat joined, for this particular event?

It also appears as though the disco is only recorded after your AI towers out, as I discoed twice. Lost connection, tried to log in again, got on the runway for about 10 seconds, lost connection again. Only after that was a disco recorded in the logs. Reconnected, see AI has bailed, "sorry bud, combat was joined".


Quote
I don't think special rules should be made just because you weren't able to follow the rules that were in place. If combat has been joined you can not re-up. I don't care how far from the action you claim to be.

We were at our home base! By the nature of the setup, we could not have been in combat. This is corroborated by our entire squadron rearming at our home field within minutes of each other around the time specified; there's no "claim" in it. And to imply we're asking for special treatment frankly pisses me off; we're asking for someone to take a look at the system, and see if it can be improved.

Now I get that you guys have to draw the line somewhere, and run the event; I deal with ornery customers on an almost daily basis. But especially as volunteers, you are there to run the event for our enjoyment. I'm not trying to insinuate anything here, but if our fun isn't a priority, then with all due respect, you probably shouldn't be a CM.


Now it sounds like your workload could be too high; as I've said before, I will gladly donate my time to do nothing but handle discoes and reups, even if it means I can't fly in the event. Say the word, and my Friday evenings are yours.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 10:21:58 PM by Tank-Ace »
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2013, 10:53:35 PM »
For the record, when was combat joined, for this particular event?

I already posted this.

on my film at 15 minutes it was announced that fields were closed.  at  21 minutes and 55 seconds the first report of vis on enemy con was announced.  almost a minute after that it was announced that fields were closed.  I am pretty sure the delay between vis and actually is because there isnt a button to just press and close the fields then automatically type that "fields are closed"

now according to my own record in fso  I took off at 22:04:25  so add to that 21 minutes and 55 seconds, we come up with 22:26:30.  so stamf discoed at 22:25:16 so he would have had to disco'd and relog send pm in about a minute and 15 seconds. 

but you can always ask other members of your squad if they recorded their sorties and compare versions.

semp


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you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline soggydawg

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2013, 12:20:21 AM »
Greetings all.

 The logs have me doing the disco dance at 22:21:37. At the time I was formed up with the squad on route to some tea toting party Perd was going on about. After I relogged into AH and found my way back to the tower I was pleasantly surprised and yes, somewhat confused to see squadies flying by the tower.

I initially thought that a mass arena disco had occurred and everybody was reupping , it is not often that one discos in an fso event and finds the rest of the squad at the home field tower. How fortunate.

There was some further confusion on ch 202 concerning when I had discoed, why the squad was still on the runway, had they been assigned aircraft. KN went off to look for trouble and I had locked myself in the tower, I’m never going to live this one down. I did however, discover Devil’s bottle of schnapps and Ruah’s stash of chocolate truffles so it was not a total loss. :aok
   
Siegfried Freytag (10 November 1919 – 1 June 2003)

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2013, 05:20:43 AM »
Frankly I am questioning if the rules were followed even. ImADot participated also in the event thus I must question his post above. I don't want to ban CMs from having fun but if it impairs their impartial function as admins then what is there to do?

The earliest recorded loss I've found, yet not awarded to anyone so could be a crash???
oHUSKERo
22:07:09 Departed from Field #123 in a Ju 87D-3
22:10:24 Was shot down by (crashed).


I can confirm husker crashed. Husker is a newlywed, and from what Nightmares understands Huskers bride gained control of his 'joystick' and thus he departed from controlled flight.

Offline 33Vortex

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2013, 05:23:29 AM »
I can confirm husker crashed. Husker is a newlywed, and from what Nightmares understands Huskers bride gained control of his 'joystick' and thus he departed from controlled flight.

This is so far the best info yet to transpire from this event.  :rofl

Congratulations to the newlyweds.  :salute

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Offline 33Vortex

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2013, 06:15:20 AM »
Ok, here are some screenshots that will show what we saw from our perspective. Taken from the film viewer, these screen captures are timed exactly on the second to when each event happened from the perspective of my computer, according to description below.

StampfAI_01: The AI plane appears about 10 seconds from when Stampf disappear, and ~2k behind us. The 5 minute timer start ticking. We are still climbing with the coast of France just S of us.
StampfAI_02: This is the ingame clock (my plane) at exactly the same time the above screengrab is taken, when the 5 minute AI timer is started.
StampfAI_03: The second before the AI plane disappear, this is the view from Stampfs plane, the coast of France is still visible and the bombers are just coming into view.
StampfAI_04: The same view but from my plane.
StampfAI_05: Ingame clock at the same second the previous two screengrabs were taken.

The timeline above make me doubt if correct procedure was followed. I have no experience of reconnecting back to a AI plane, but if the player is not able to get back up into the AI plane must he then wait for the AI plane to disappear before upping from a field? If so, then that would have prevented Stampf in this case to even hava a chance to re-up. If he was back in the arena within 2 minutes but the re-connect to the plane failed he would have been forced to wait 3 more minutes and by that time combat was joined. I see no reason to ground him for that still, because he was in that example back before combat was joined but unable to up so it would be unfair to be grounded for that reason. At those times it's important to remember why we are here, and not be anal about the rules just because you think that's your job. In this example it would be a judgement call and I personally would not rob a person of his FSO because of unfortunate circumstances. I think that's stupid.

In light of this event, it is my opinion that there should be tools implemented to give CMs the ability to see all planes in the arena, to allow discos not in combat back into the arena. We were 100 miles or more from combat, still heading for RZ with the bombers and not yet even ready for combat. Stampf could have taken off from the airfield and catch up with us before any combat encounter would be likely, although not at the same altitude. It would have had no negative impact on the frame and gameplay overall, but to Stampf the evening was destroyed. Not ruined even, just gone as in taken away.

So to prevent this very negative experience to happen, to anyone, in the future. I recommend some better tools be implemented to be able to discern units in combat from those far from combat and that better routines be put in place. As well as the AI plane reconnect functionality be looked into for it doesn't seem to be working as intended.

I'm not here to hang anyone, and if you perceive the original post as accusations well, you either plain don't see the reasons behind that or don't want to admit that these are justified questions. I don't have all the data, I wish I did in this case and that's what I'm trying to obtain from those who have the missing pieces. That's what I'm asking for, and the end goal is a better experience for all involved not just for Stampf, me or JG11. So if you take a position against me you're not really helping yourself either.

Let's see things for what they are here in a constructive way and not let egos prevent something that could be a very positive outcome for all future FSOs.

 :salute

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Offline pops57

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2013, 06:45:26 AM »
 Lucky pup--that won't be happening much longer, once the honeymoon is over he'll be back to handling his joystick all by himself. All kidding aside--congrats to the newly weds! :cheers:
I can confirm husker crashed. Husker is a newlywed, and from what Nightmares understands Huskers bride gained control of his 'joystick' and thus he departed from controlled flight.

Offline Wiley

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2013, 02:33:37 PM »
The timeline above make me doubt if correct procedure was followed. I have no experience of reconnecting back to a AI plane, but if the player is not able to get back up into the AI plane must he then wait for the AI plane to disappear before upping from a field? If so, then that would have prevented Stampf in this case to even hava a chance to re-up. If he was back in the arena within 2 minutes but the re-connect to the plane failed he would have been forced to wait 3 more minutes and by that time combat was joined.

Do you have any basis for not being able to reup with AI's in the air?  I've never seen it not allow a disco to reup when it didn't put them back in the AI unless fields were closed, which is the only time I've seen the disco code not work.

I see no reason to ground him for that still, because he was in that example back before combat was joined but unable to up so it would be unfair to be grounded for that reason. At those times it's important to remember why we are here, and not be anal about the rules just because you think that's your job. In this example it would be a judgement call and I personally would not rob a person of his FSO because of unfortunate circumstances. I think that's stupid.

Meant constructively, as soon as you add in judgement calls, you add in 'He was allowed in under these circumstances but I wasn't!' style conflict.  There's something to be said for having a clear line that things fall either on one side or the other of.  It sucks to disco right at the cutoff, I've had it happen to me too, but there has to be a clear delineation.

Otherwise you start entering into the realm of questions such as 'how far away is far enough from combat?' and a legion of others.

No disrespect intended, it just seems to me a rather large can of worms to open considering some of the relatively small things people will argue over in here.

Wiley.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2013, 02:41:16 PM »
Considering that pilots upped after combat started, it's already an issue.

When do we call it? Do they have to up before combat starts? Do they simply have to ask before combat starts?

You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Wiley

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2013, 03:15:58 PM »
Considering that pilots upped after combat started, it's already an issue.

What am I missing?  The only time I've seen quoted for combat having been joined was semp's 22:26:30.  I haven't seen any posts showing people upping after that time.

Wiley.
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Offline BFOOT1

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2013, 11:40:17 PM »
Let's enjoy the show  :rofl
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Offline 33Vortex

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2013, 04:35:31 AM »
You're a little late for the show I believe this topic is dead.

The FSO CMs are silent and I have no interest in entertaining a flamefest, that is very distant from what I had intended. Without meaningful communication in this thread I'm done here. I hope there will be some feedback given eventually and I am patiently waiting for that. Whatever HTC had in mind with the FSO activities I do not believe booting players not breaking any rules was ever part of what they had in mind. For in the end it will make people leave the game and community. FSO is a very successful part of AH. Some people play AH solely because of FSO or historical scenarios and that's essentially what is keeping me here. If HTC want the FSO community to grow (it does draw a farily big regular crowd) they should support it by providing the tools for smooth scenario operations. This is not to put anyone down, it should be regarded as feedback from a customer. The other issue I aired is of lesser importance at least to me, because I don't pay much attention to the personalities or "social hierarchy" of the community, at all.

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Offline steely07

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2013, 10:55:52 PM »
This might be a newb question, but the time you up, is that from when you spawn, or when you start engine, when wheels move, or when you're airborne? (the time shown in the logs I mean)

This might explain why some of the Allies "upped" after fields close, they may have spawned and waited on runway, engines off.

I'm only guessing, and not on either side of the argument, anyone know?
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Offline 33Vortex

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2013, 04:57:34 AM »
"Upping" means spawning. I believe the game will list any player in a vehicle, on ground or in air, as "in flight" irrespective of whether the player is actually flying or not.

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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2013, 06:20:04 AM »
"Upping" means spawning. I believe the game will list any player in a vehicle, on ground or in air, as "in flight" irrespective of whether the player is actually flying or not.

your squadie missed the time by seconds or minutes, depending on how long it took for him to relog and asked to be let in.  it's already been posted before and has been established that the rules were followed.

Instead of accusing, you could have been asking that in the future perhaps  the time to rejoin due to disco's should be changed and propose a change.  you could have generated more goodwill than just outright accusing people and demand that they be reprimanded..


semp

you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.