Author Topic: Do 217  (Read 3985 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2013, 04:20:27 PM »
Which is faster with a large load? I've always been under the impression the 217 was the faster if the two. And that both were significant improvements on the Ju 88.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2013, 04:26:58 PM »
If the Do217 is only slightly faster than the Ju188, I'd rather have the Ju188 for that 20mm top turret.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2013, 04:33:12 PM »
Depends on bomb size. The thing is the 217 could carry some larger bombs internally, where the 188's internal bays were limited to only 50kg sized bombs or aux fuel tanks.

So up to a certain point the 217 would be faster at max speeds, but have worse range and much worse handling (and a lower ceiling). However, a number of loadouts on the 217 required the external ETC racks between the fuselage and the engines, which would have slowed it down as well. So, for Aces High's use the 217 would be better if "clean" externally, since most people run full throttle all the time anyways. Even though it was fast, it was considered woefully underpowered for the loads on the wings and not very responsive in handling or performance. Later models tried to remedy this with longer wings, but it didn't help all that much and in the end the engines were needed elsewhere and the production was cancelled in favor of He177s and Ju188s.

That's only for conventional bomb use, though. It almost seems more were used in combination with the Fritz-X and the Hs293 than were used as conventional bombers. These required external loads and slowed the plane down more, and when these loads were used the internal bays were required to load fuel tanks.

P.S. The 188 reportedly climbed much better than the 217.

P.P.S Karnak: While I believe the 188 had better defensive guns, but the 217 could also have a fixed forward 20mm. Problem is according to its handling and performance you'd almost never get it on target in Aces High and it would be only good against ground targets or HO defense.

Offline Denniss

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2013, 04:33:46 PM »
Do 217 had a rather high wing loading, also poor flying capabilities on one engine. That's the main reason it was phased-out rather early in the NF role.
He 219 suffered from a similar problem - too heavy and wing loading was also somewhat high so poor climbing at full weight.

I have a Do 217 E-1 speed:
Climb/Combat engine power, 14,5 t weight, ~5km alt, ~480 km/h, no flame dampers, flown with metal props, wooden props reduce speed by 10 km/h. 14.5t of weight is with about 1.6t of bombs
The E-2 is about 500kg heavier so expect it to be slower
Speed at sea level with 14.5 t is given as 430 km/h, climb to 3 km with 9 min, 16 min to 5 km

Offline Butcher

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2013, 06:41:57 PM »
217 had a larger bombload but also climbed like a pig and its range was horribly short if it took that large bomb load, most that did carry the Fritz-X and HS-293 problem is we wont' get those in aces high so it makes the Do-217 another hanger queen unless for scenarios and even then not so many scenarios will have it because it really wasn't in very many units.

Standard bomb load for the 217 that I've seen was 4x 500kg on a typical mission load out due to the range, etc.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2013, 08:04:02 PM »
The gist I am getting from this thread is that the bombload on the Do217 is a temptation that would lead to a less effective bomber than the Ju188 would be.

I'll stand by my support for the Ju188A-1.
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2013, 09:45:18 PM »
The gist I am getting from this thread is that the bombload on the Do217 is a temptation that would lead to a less effective bomber than the Ju188 would be.

I'll stand by my support for the Ju188A-1.
buuuuuuuuuuuuuut the He177(when everything worked) is still priority :old:
After the beufighter of course
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Offline Butcher

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2013, 10:07:44 PM »
buuuuuuuuuuuuuut the He177(when everything worked) is still priority :old:
After the beufighter of course

He-177 is one aircraft I would vote last over everything else. With a ton of Japanese, Russian, British bombers among everything else - The He-111 was just added, the He-177 only brings some LWA action and thats it.
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Offline jag88

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2013, 10:09:53 PM »
buuuuuuuuuuuuuut the He177(when everything worked) is still priority :old:
After the beufighter of course

+1

The obligatory He-177 data:



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Offline Karnak

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2013, 10:24:46 PM »
He177 would need to be perked, and as such would be pretty rare.

Ju188A-1 could be an MA staple.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2013, 10:31:43 PM »
Anything to get people out of their lancs and B-17's.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Karnak

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2013, 10:34:16 PM »
Anything to get people out of their lancs and B-17's.
Why?  Those, along with the B-24 and Halifax, were the core heavy bombers of WWII.  What justification is there to have a fantasy He177 dominate the actual core WWII heavies other than for the self satisfaction of German fanbois?
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2013, 10:39:00 PM »
Was talking about the 188 or 217.

And because they get boring after a while. When you see something besides a lanc or 17, you know he's usually going to maneuver after he loses drones, and actually fight.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Karnak

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2013, 10:42:38 PM »
I don't think either the Ju188 or Do217 have any chance of getting people out of the B-17 or Lancaster.  They might get some people out of the B-26 and Ki-67 though.
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Offline jag88

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Re: Do 217
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2013, 10:53:50 PM »
He177 would need to be perked, and as such would be pretty rare.

Ju188A-1 could be an MA staple.

Again karnak?

Have you read anything on the Greif since the last time we discussed this so you can actually put forward an argument for perking?  Any numbers?

The 88 in my name has nothing to do with nazis, skinheads or any other type of half-wit, nor with the "ideas" they support.