If we have 190A8 in current aircraft lineup, we should also have P-51b

[Buzzbait]

S!

The P-51b arrived in December of '43.  It goes with the current planeset more than it does with the next one.

No one will fly it in the next aircraft lineup, since they have the option of the P-51D.  And it will also face the 190D9 if anyone takes it, something which really didn't happen since most were replaced by '51D' models fall '44.

By the way, I don't understand why anyone would prefer the 190A8 to the A5.  The A5 flys circles round it.  Maybe the A8 is a little better high up, but who takes a 190 for the high alt stuff?  I've been flying the A5 quite a bit lately and find it superior to the P-47 anywhere below 15,000.

I guess you might take the A8 as a Buff buster, but how many times do you see a buff in the CT with the current non-existent Strat system?

[janjan]

A8 is quite much faster on deck running like hell.

It takes more damage.

Much better punch.

More internal fuel (not that it counts in CT)

[-ammo-]

someone tell me if I am wrong.. but didnt th A8 arrive in spring 44 in action? The P-51 B was operational in one wing in Jan 44.

does anyone think the addition of both he A8 and the P51B would be unbalancing?

[janjan]

Could be a perk plane?

It's surely superior to anything axis have now.

[buscaglia]

FWa8 in CT is supposed to simulate 190a6...Or at least this is what i ve heard.
(190a6-190a8 -->same speed, same ammo and guns, different armor--> 190a6 was just more agile but less sturdy.

[SKurj]

And the current P47 in the CT is there to simulate earlier models which didn't perform as well also.  That is why the A8 is there.

The p51b arrives next planeset change anyways
sheez guys CHILL
(as if the A8 is makin much of an impact on the CT)


SKurj

[Buzzbait]

S!

A6 is almost identical to A5.  A8 is supposed to simulate the A7's.  A7 was first to have some with 13mm guns in cowling and outer FF 20mm replaced by 150/21's.  But A7 did not have GM-1 and was produced in small numbers.

The P-51b equipped 3 full fighter groups in the Spring of '44, prior to the arrival of the 109G10.

I think it should be a perk, and I don't think it would overbalance the arena, since the armament is pretty weak.

[-ammo-]

perk the pony and put in there.

But as skurj reminds us, in a few days we will have an updated planeset.

[Fester']

add p38L

add p38L

[funkedup]

This setup was specifically designed to represent 8th AF vs. Jagdwaffe before the Merlin-engined Mustangs were introduced.  There will be plenty of Runstangs in the next setup.  Contrary to adolescent fantasy, the US used airplanes other than the P-51D and F4U in WWII.  Most of the damage to the LW was done by Thunderbolts.  Deal with it.        

P-38L is not appropriate, as it significantly outperforms the Lightnings that were available before December 1943.  Speed, climb, dive flaps, powered ailerons.  If P-38J-25-LO was available before P-51B/C then it is news to me.

The A-8 as modeled in AH does not give a significant advantage over Fw 190s were available prior to December 1943.  A-8 is representing the A-6 and A-7, i.e. 190A with 4 x MG 151.  If you think the MG 131 in the cowl are giving the LW some kind of significant advantage you are nuts.    
I would put it on par with the advantage the USAAF is getting from the water injection in the D-11.  I'm not even going to consider the missing 300 lbs.

PS, I have asked that P-51D be perked in the next setup, and P-51B be unperked.  So hopefully we will see a glimpse of the brief period where non-bubble-top Mustangs were the most abundant type.

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by funkedup:
 Contrary to adolescent fantasy, the US used airplanes other than the P-51D and F4U in WWII.  Most of the damage to the LW was done by Thunderbolts.  Deal with it.        

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

This is of coarse known by me, and music to my ears And the setup is cool by me. But I certainly dotn see anything wrong with addign the B model pony, after all the Germans had to deal with it in limited numbers in January '44, should the LW in AH be pampered too ?

Its basically a play concession then, and nothing else. The pony will be added with the dora and the G10, so there will be no running away.

[Buzzbait]

S! Funked

I know you designed the aircraft lineup, but there is a definite gap in what you are laying out.

The scenarios are:  8th AF Arrives, which covers July `43 to November `43.  Next after that is Overlord, which would seem to start in July `44.  The lineup of aircraft in `Overlord`includes the 109G10, P-47D25 and P-51D.  The first wasn`t introduced until May `44, the next two came into general service in June and July.

We are missing the period in between these two scenarios, (December `43 to May `44)  which would include the introduction of the 190A8 and P51b.

As I have mentioned before, this was the most important period of the war for the Strategic bombing campaign, and saw the USAAF establish aerial supremacy over Germany with its long range escorts.  It also saw the death by attrition of the cream of the German airforce.  It was the window when the USAAF had technical superiority.

[funkedup]

Buzz:

Yep there's a gap.  I figured nobody would be too dissappointed if we had one less period of "LW gets slaughtered".      

If Pyro wants to do the period you describe (say Dec 43 through March 44) then he could just run the Overlord setup minus the Me 109G-10 and the P-51D.

Also:
Overlord doesn't mean just D-Day.  Perhaps I should have picked better names.  I made up the names after I wrote down the planesets.  To be honest I spent about 5 minutes on the whole process.  

And bubble-top Jugs and Ponies were in service in the ETO before D-Day.

Ammo:
   

. The pony will be added with the dora and the G10, so there will be no running away.

Exactly.  Actually the G-10 comes first, then the Dora, then the Ta 152.

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[-ammo-]

for the record, I didnt here "much" griping in the first go around when all the allies had was the spit5. Except the LW a little bit about the insane altitudes the spit pilots were climbing too, but that was just so we could actually catch the 109's

[Buzzbait]

S!

And the Allies are going to be enduring a definite inferiority when the Me262 comes into the picture.  All those Luftwaffe boys are saving up their perks I am sure, and we'll have to deal with a swarm of them.

So I think adding the P-51b is right and fair now.

And it would be nice to see it facing the historical matchups it faced in reality.