Hi Tech needed!

[Randy1]

I believe you may have this one thing backwards, Earl. You might should be asking yourself
if it's logical to launch a mission while the boat is turning. Bad thinking. 

The launch and the hard turn by the CV happened at the same instant.  No time to stop the mission or the turn.

Now on holding the CV straight for the launch.  According to y'all then CVs launching planes in WW2 would turn violently during mission launch because that would be too risky for the CV?  I did not know that.  I thought they turned into the wind.

How many missions do you run Arlo in a session in the MA?  What about you Fugitive?

Earl runs several in a session.  Sometimes they are NOEs, sometimes CV launches, sometimes Bomber and heavy fighter missions.  Sometimes B29 missions.  Even a GV mission.   

[hammer]

....  According to y'all then CVs launching planes in WW2 would turn violently during mission launch because that would be too risky for the CV? 

No one has said a carrier turning during launch was realistic. The argument against Earl's idea is a game consideration. Any idea needs to be looked at from a minimum of 2 perspectives: 1) Will it improve the game?  and 2) Can it be abused?

Clearly Earl's idea has merit from the mission launch perspective. It would undoubtedly be frustrating to have a mission launch disrupted in this way so, from the "will it improve the game" perspective, this idea is a winner.

As has already been pointed out in this thread, Earl's idea can easily be abused to hold the CV group straight while buffs come in to kill it so, from the "can it be abused" perspective, it is a loser.

At this point, the question becomes whether the benefits outweigh the risks. This is the first time I can remember seeing this brought up as an issue in 13 years in the game. OTOH, based on what I've seen from the player base in the game, it will be abused each and every day in order to kill one or more CVs. To my (and, it appears, most others who have replied in this thread) way of thinking, the negatives far outweigh the positives and so we don't support it. That, in a nutshell, is the crux of the opposition to this idea.

Regards,

Hammer

[Butcher]

While I understand what Earl is coming from (as I've seen squads take command of CV's to do missions only to see some jerkwad with a lower rank for no reason turns the boat to crash everyone).
Rank is rather simple to get, however not everyone can invest in time to get that rank to beat a jerk who happens to play a few hours more.
But the rank system is flawed enough anyone can cheat the system without having to do any real work.

[kvuo75]

The launch and the hard turn by the CV happened at the same instant.  No time to stop the mission or the turn.

just because you spawned on the deck, you must go instantly?

you know, if you pull the throttle all the way back, the airplane wont go. it will sit still and wait.

[Halo46]

The launch and the hard turn by the CV happened at the same instant.  No time to stop the mission or the turn.

Now on holding the CV straight for the launch.  According to y'all then CVs launching planes in WW2 would turn violently during mission launch because that would be too risky for the CV?  I did not know that.  I thought they turned into the wind.

How many missions do you run Arlo in a session in the MA?  What about you Fugitive?

Earl runs several in a session.  Sometimes they are NOEs, sometimes CV launches, sometimes Bomber and heavy fighter missions.  Sometimes B29 missions.  Even a GV mission.   

Wow, holy midway fanboydom! The number of missions earl runs and this wish have nothing to do with one another dude. Both you and he seem to be stuck on some fantasyVreality loop. Using the logic you are trying to use as your argument above, then, according to you, launching a mission in real life had tens of planes stacked up on top of one another after miraculously appearing at a given start time and no one was hurt and everyone lifted into the clear blue sky within a matter of seconds. Dial it back, no one is putting earl down, just expressing their own opinions about his wish. If you really want "realism" then you would need hours to form your missions up to start with. Just because the two of you have decided to close your minds regarding the consequences of implementing his wish, doesn't mean your mission planning pilot hero is being snubbed. We all put blinders on at times, and we eventually will just have to deal with the fact other people thought differently. This idea would not have been supported no matter who made the wish, not without some manner built in that prevented the abuse of the feature, which would far outweigh the inconvenience of you having to pause a minute before jamming your throttle to the firewall. The issue you guys had was preventable, and you can launch your next mission having learned how to do so in this game successfully without having to alter any current game play elements. Your problem is fixed, celebrate dude! 

[earl1937]

Wow, holy midway fanboydom! The number of missions earl runs and this wish have nothing to do with one another dude. Both you and he seem to be stuck on some fantasyVreality loop. Using the logic you are trying to use as your argument above, then, according to you, launching a mission in real life had tens of planes stacked up on top of one another after miraculously appearing at a given start time and no one was hurt and everyone lifted into the clear blue sky within a matter of seconds. Dial it back, no one is putting earl down, just expressing their own opinions about his wish. If you really want "realism" then you would need hours to form your missions up to start with. Just because the two of you have decided to close your minds regarding the consequences of implementing his wish, doesn't mean your mission planning pilot hero is being snubbed. We all put blinders on at times, and we eventually will just have to deal with the fact other people thought differently. This idea would not have been supported no matter who made the wish, not without some manner built in that prevented the abuse of the feature, which would far outweigh the inconvenience of you having to pause a minute before jamming your throttle to the firewall. The issue you guys had was preventable, and you can launch your next mission having learned how to do so in this game successfully without having to alter any current game play elements. Your problem is fixed, celebrate dude! 

Forget it guys! I finally have figured out what to do: " I just won't post anymore CV missions, when I want to use carrier based aircraft in an attack, we just use the Marine aircraft stationed in all the hangars"! LOL

[Randy1]

just because you spawned on the deck, you must go instantly?

you know, if you pull the throttle all the way back, the airplane wont go. it will sit still and wait.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about regarding this particular incident.  You can't tell the boat is turning.  You have 30+ planes that have spawned on the deck at exactly the same time sitting on top of each other.  The CV is running straight.  The launch is given.  The planes are not in a pretty nice line.  You throw the throttle to it with the only view you have is of thirty of planes.  By the time your view clears, and you see the CV taking a hard right turn the odds of making it off the deck are say 50-50.  It is too late to throttle back.

The wish is simple guys.  Give the command of the CV to the mission creator for the duration of the launch which is what five minutes max. That is well with in the simulation of a WW2 launch.

[hammer]

...
The wish is simple guys.  Give the command of the CV to the mission creator for the duration of the launch which is what five minutes max. That is well with in the simulation of a WW2 launch.

And our objections are simple, too. A bomber moving at 250 mph will cover nearly 21 miles in 5 minutes - 4/5 of a sector. A bomber moving at 200 mph will cover almost 17 miles - 2/3 of a sector. That is more than enough time to line up a formation and take out the carrier and there is nothing anyone can do about it because someone switched sides and set up a mission to keep the group moving in a straight line. This will happen far more frequently than someone launching a mission from a CV, much less turning the CV during mission launch.

While I suspect all of us understand and acknowledge the wish, ignoring the reasoning for the objections. While the basic objection has been stated in several different ways, there has been no attempt to address it or even acknowledge that the objections are based on anything other than a lack of understanding of the situation. Again, fully understand the wish, but your cure is worse than the disease!

Regards,

Hammer

[Vinkman]

F3. That's why it's there

I only lambaste ideas that are being posted from a very limited point of view without taking account the further implications of it beyond the very small point they try to "fix". Just like this one. 

Does auto take off enable a plane to take off from a turning CV? 

[gyrene81]

Does auto take off enable a plane to take off from a turning CV? 

yup, and you don't realize it's turning or how extreme it is turning while you're in hangar.

[earl1937]

yup, and you don't realize it's turning or how extreme it is turning while you're in hangar.

Wish you were correct, but, you are not! If the boat is turning and you have auto-takeoff engaged, aircraft will try to stay on the heading it was on when it spawned out and with the boat turning, first thing that happens, you run off the side of the carrier!

[gyrene81]

Wish you were correct, but, you are not! If the boat is turning and you have auto-takeoff engaged, aircraft will try to stay on the heading it was on when it spawned out and with the boat turning, first thing that happens, you run off the side of the carrier!

sorry Earl, read the question and the reply again. nobody said anything about direction or heading.

[Arlo]

The launch and the hard turn by the CV happened at the same instant.  No time to stop the mission or the turn.

Now on holding the CV straight for the launch.  According to y'all then CVs launching planes in WW2 would turn violently during mission launch because that would be too risky for the CV?  I did not know that.  I thought they turned into the wind.

How many missions do you run Arlo in a session in the MA?  What about you Fugitive?

Earl runs several in a session.  Sometimes they are NOEs, sometimes CV launches, sometimes Bomber and heavy fighter missions.  Sometimes B29 missions.  Even a GV mission.  

Easy on the hissy.

Do I run currently or have I run? Enough to know this is not a crisis or even close. Enough to know what's being suggested is the medicine that would kill the patient (over a pimple).

Like I said in an earlier post. Assign someone to watch for turns (in VF-17 we all naturally do). Someone can also pay attention to the clipboard map to watch for upcoming way-point changes or someone making course changes to either protect the CV if an inbound looks close on the radar or to move it closer to an enemy base for a capture. A mission has  the resource built-in to overcome anything as minor as what you're screaming about - more than one player. Eyes.

p.s. If you read my posts you would see my referencing turning into the wind and if you think about it, you will realize why that's not a practical option for AHII game play. Hell ... the start of a 'mission' may well have involved turning into the wind if that was coded. That's right, the mission clock starts and ... CV turns. And you're not going to land (successfully) until the ship turns back into the wind (and maybe the mission clock with do that 'for' you, as well). If you're gonna be confused about what we are saying you may ought to start with your confusion over what you are really asking for. Be careful for that.  

[earl1937]

sorry Earl, read the question and the reply again. nobody said anything about direction or heading.

His question is pretty clear: "can you take off with auto takeoff when the boat is turning and the answer is no". If you spawn out onto the deck, with auto takeoff engaged in options, even if the boat is turning and then stops turning, as soon as you apply throttle, the aircraft will try to return to the heading at which it was on when it spawned out on the deck. The way you answer him was that you could takeoff from a turning carrier by engaging auto takeoff.

[Arlo]

Forget it guys! I finally have figured out what to do: " I just won't post anymore CV missions, when I want to use carrier based aircraft in an attack, we just use the Marine aircraft stationed in all the hangars"! LOL

That's what you figured out of this, Earl? I am disappointed, sir.