Duelers need your opinions here on this matter.

[uptown]

On the issue of dumping ammo before the duel. If it makes no difference and provides no advantage like you guys are saying, then why do it? You all know damned good and well it lightens the plane up. Just like fighting with a DT and not.

[uptown]

I like the MA duels a lot for the simple reason you never know what to expect, except your opponent will try for every advantage possible. Winning a fight from a clear disadvantage is way more rewarding than winning one on equal terms IMO.

[mechanic]

Why do you have to go to the DA? Are people incapable of having 1v1 dogfights in the main arena? I will concede that during the East coast prime time it might be hard, but at 4am EST there is little interruption, and most are lucky to find any dogfight on the map.

The question is; why not go?

[iKo]

DA because the bases are in 1 sector and i can get more fights in less time, also you can pick bases at different alt's without climbing. Saves time more fights that's why its called the DA= Dueling arena  if you didn't know what DA was, it's that simple.

[LCADolby]

On the issue of dumping ammo before the duel. If it makes no difference and provides no advantage like you guys are saying, then why do it? You all know damned good and well it lightens the plane up. Just like fighting with a DT and not.

Fighting with the DT or not would add aerodynamic drag into the fight, the comparison is not the same.

[uptown]

Fighting with the DT or not would add aerodynamic drag into the fight, the comparison is not the same.

Okay I'll buy that, but that still doesn't answer my question.

[uptown]

If such a small advantage by another player frightens you, you shouldn't be in the DA... or even in a fighter plane in the first place. Just sayin'.

The same could be said to the guy dumping the ammo too. A small advantage it may be but it's still an advantage. These things are supposed to be even and fair. This kind of acceptance to bending the rules makes me wonder what other "tweeks" the top duelers are willing to do to win a duel.

Some of you guys will sit here and talk about a fair fight and all the while you're dumping weight  Why don't you just slap some bricks on my arse while you're at it so you can "pwn" even quicker. 

[LCADolby]

You could argue that one pilot WEPing more than the other or sat on the runway for longer waiting on the other guy to set up his convergence or whatever, using more fuel i.e. less weight, will also decide a fight.

You forget one factor also, gunnery. The guy ditching ammo is adding risk, if he expends his ammo during a fight... Embarrassing or humiliating, pick one, there is no up side.

[mechanic]

The same could be said to the guy dumping the ammo too. A small advantage it may be but it's still an advantage. These things are supposed to be even and fair. This kind of acceptance to bending the rules makes me wonder what other "tweaks" the top duelers are willing to do to win a duel.

Some of you guys will sit here and talk about a fair fight and all the while you're dumping weight  Why don't you just slap some bricks on my arse while you're at it so you can "pwn" even quicker. 

The experienced duelers don't dump ammo because it makes so little difference. I agree with you that the 'tweaks' some of the new dueling pups use to gain what they think is an advantage are poor sportsmanship. The people saying that it makes no difference are saying that there is no point doing it, not that they should be allowed to do it.

You can always tell when someone has dumped all their ammo because they replane every fight. It's dweeby and illy to do so.

[LCADolby]

Generally speaking Duellers follow;

The Challenged has choice of the first plane, loser of the round to pick next plane and so on. Cold first merge.
Fuel will be 25%, guns, ammo loadout personal choice, no restrictions on dumping ammo unless mutually agreed upon.
ALT cap, is agreed upon by both. Neither will extend beyond 2.5k icon range from their opponent and F3 mode is out of the question.

[LCADolby]

[quote author=mechanic link=topic=355125.msg4706125#msg4706125 date=
You can always tell when someone has dumped all their ammo because they replane every fight. It's dweeby and illy to do so.
[/quote]

The guy towered has to go from 0mph on the deck, climb up to the agreed alt if any, accelerate to duelling speed, and then hope to match the E of the chap still inflight from the last round.
It could be argued that it's "illy" and dweeby to stack the Energy in your favour not replaning.

[uptown]

Generally speaking Duellers follow;

The Challenged has choice of the first plane, loser of the round to pick next plane and so on. Cold first merge.
Fuel will be 25%, guns, ammo loadout personal choice, no restrictions on dumping ammo unless mutually agreed upon.
ALT cap, is agreed upon by both. Neither will extend beyond 2.5k icon range from their opponent and F3 mode is out of the question.

These are good solid rules I think. 

[BaldEagl]

These are good solid rules I think. 

Standard dueling rules.  The question is, who follows them and who doesn't?

[uptown]

The experienced duelers don't dump ammo because it makes so little difference. I agree with you that the 'tweaks' some of the new dueling pups use to gain what they think is an advantage are poor sportsmanship. The people saying that it makes no difference are saying that there is no point doing it, not that they should be allowed to do it.

You can always tell when someone has dumped all their ammo because they replane every fight. It's dweeby and illy to do so.

I always bail out if I win because of the fuel weight issue. The idea of dumping ammo has honestly never occurred to me until this thread. I just take for granted my foe has the exact same setup as me, so I bail to keep it that way. As far as dumping ammo is concerned and you stating it makes little or no difference in the outcome of a duel, I'll have to take your word on that. I haven't the experience you have, and haven't tested the theory myself. Although it's makes common sense to me that a weight advantage can decide the outcome if pilots were equal in skill. Sometimes it's only a matter of being able to drop a wing at the right time to decide a fight.  

[mechanic]

[quote author=mechanic link=topic=355125.msg4706125#msg4706125 date=
You can always tell when someone has dumped all their ammo because they replane every fight. It's dweeby and illy to do so.


The guy towered has to go from 0mph on the deck, climb up to the agreed alt if any, accelerate to duelling speed, and then hope to match the E of the chap still inflight from the last round.
It could be argued that it's "silly" and dweeby to stack the Energy in your favour not replaning.

You're taking the practice of dueling too seriously, pup. By the time you've arranged all your rules and regulations and done what it takes to meet them, Dedalos and I have had 5 fun fights.

I always bail out if I win because of the fuel weight issue. The idea of dumping ammo has honestly never occurred to me until this thread. I just take for granted my foe has the exact same setup as me, so I bail to keep it that way. As far as dumping ammo is concerned and you stating it makes little or no difference in the outcome of a duel, I'll have to take your word on that. I haven't the experience you have, and haven't tested the theory myself. Although it's makes common sense to me that a weight advantage can decide the outcome if pilots were equal in skill. Sometimes it's only a matter of being able to drop a wing at the right time to decide a fight.  

The people I usually duel with don't take the fight that seriously so that a few hundred lbs of fuel here or there matters. Sure, it might just make the difference in rare circumstances, but so what? You replane and fight again. Why replane and spend another few minutes crossing the sector when the winner can hang around and you both get to fight almost instantly?

We will duel in same planes, different planes, same fuel, dierent fuel, same gun pack, different gunpack, same alt, different alt..... this keeps it interesting, a good duel is not governed by rules and regulations, it is governed by both party's sense of sportsmanship and both's desire to give and receive a good fight.


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The true beauty of dueling is something that has been inside humans for thouands of years. The unspoken agreement that both will enter combat but only one will emerge on the other side. It is a primal bond between two humans when they enter such a combat no matter if they use sticks, rocks, swords, six shooters or a virtual life. Two go in, none other can interfere, one comes out.

The ma is not like that, there is always a chance for faceless exit from the combat. That is why some are reluctant to go to the DA, because they are scared to engage in something that they then must see through to the very finite ending. Real men at some point must put all their chips in the pot, place their cards face up and await the flop. That is not bravado, it is simply a beautiful shared experience that risks everything. A very personal experience to those two souls locked in mortal combat. And one of the greatest adrenalin rushes available to man.

To hide from that natural, primal, shared mortal gamble in a virtual world is beyond pointless