Author Topic: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift  (Read 4150 times)

Offline Nefarious

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2013, 06:18:04 AM »
Even if the member posted you privately, the evidence itself shouldn't be kept private. Please post here or in Krusty's thread. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who's interested.

That's it, there is nothing outside speculation and opinion on their usage. In his original thread, Krusty offered no more information or sources than anyone else has.

I read his information back in early September and tried to confirm it, but like him the only real evidence that exists is just the lack of photos of the I-16 with the 20mm loadout. I figured that was enough to warrant them being disabled, but truthfully I should have disregarded it. In the meanwhile, I have asked Krusty to post some sources.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2013, 08:58:14 AM »
sifting through a lot of garbage (almost got a virus), any available decent information shows the cannon option was equipped on gunship models, type 12, 17, 24, 27.

interesting purported interview with a former soviet i-16 pilot...
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/golodnikov/part1.htm

some information on the different types...
http://www.ww2warbirds.net/ww2htmls/polii16.html
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_polikarpov_I-16.html

more info with fewer types listed...
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/ussr/aircraft/fighter/polikarpov-i-16.asp

jarhed  
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2013, 10:37:41 AM »
That's it, there is nothing outside speculation and opinion on their usage. In his original thread, Krusty offered no more information or sources than anyone else has.

I read his information back in early September and tried to confirm it, but like him the only real evidence that exists is just the lack of photos of the I-16 with the 20mm loadout. I figured that was enough to warrant them being disabled, but truthfully I should have disregarded it. In the meanwhile, I have asked Krusty to post some sources.




Offline Nefarious

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2013, 10:39:41 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)



Yep... just a handful of pics out there and thats one of them.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Arlo

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2013, 10:42:41 AM »
Yep... just a handful of pics out there and thats one of them.

WWII Russia wasn't the photo shoot we may want it to be, dude.  :D

Offline Arlo

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2013, 10:50:04 AM »







Offline Nefarious

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2013, 11:28:20 AM »
WWII Russia wasn't the photo shoot we may want it to be, dude.  :D

So are you saying dont bother shaving?  :aok nice pics.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2013, 11:35:04 AM »
let them have the 20mm loadout...we will squash the inferior soviets anyway.  :D



*well, i may not shoot one down but someone will...*
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Nefarious

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2013, 11:57:35 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)



Looking closer at those photos, (im on my phone, traveling this weekend) only the top photo is armed with 20s. The bottom two aircraft do not have them armed. Those are pitot tubes on the wings.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2013, 12:03:20 PM »
Looking closer at those photos, (im on my phone, traveling this weekend) only the top photo is armed with 20s. The bottom two aircraft do not have them armed. Those are pitot tubes on the wings.
take a look a the landing gear on the top photo too. different model of i-16 from the other 2.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Nefarious

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2013, 12:19:16 PM »
take a look a the landing gear on the top photo too. different model of i-16 from the other 2.

Looks like the gear doors have been removed.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2013, 12:34:53 PM »
yep and there is a difference between the landing gear covers in that pic and the first one Arlo posted with the #28 plane...

from what i have been able to find (without getting a virus infection) is the gear covers were on later models...type 24 and 27. some very small differences in the windscreens too.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Kingpin

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2013, 01:27:25 PM »

WWII Russia wasn't the photo shoot we may want it to be, dude.  :D

In Soviet Russia, photo take you!
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Offline Squire

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2013, 03:32:16 PM »
Dug up today what I could find. It would appear that both the Type 17 and Type 28 had the ShVAK 20mm and the I-16 was produced in very large #s some 17,000 in all.

Soviet Aces of WW2 (Morgan) page 92:

..."I-16 White 28 flown by Snr Lt M Vasiliev of 4 IAP, VVS, KBF, Stalingrad Front Spring 1942"

..."This aeroplane appears to have been a sub-series 17 equipped with long-barrelled 20mm ShVAK wing cannons"
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 03:41:03 PM by Squire »
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2013, 04:43:54 PM »
I-16 tip 12 (I-16P - pushechnyy, cannon armed)

The I-16 tip 12 (or I-16P - pushhyechnyi or cannon armed) was the first version of the fighter to be armed with 20mm cannon. It was developed in 1936 by fitting two 20mm ShVAK cannon to a tip 5 airframe, with the cannon mounted in the wing centre section and synchronised to fire through the propeller arc. Only a small number of tip 12s were produced.

I-16 tip 17

The I-16 tip 17 was the first cannon armed version of the I-16 to be produced in significant numbers. This time the 20mm cannon were mounted further out, beyond the propeller arc. The type also retained the two machine guns in the upper fuselage. Despite the extra weight of the cannon the top speed of the I-16 only fell from 278mph on the tip 10 to 264mph on the tip 17. Twenty seven tip 17s were built in 1938, and 314 in 1939. Production them moved onto the tip 27.

I-16 tip 27

The I-16 tip 27 was the cannon-armed equivalent of the I-16 tip 20, and combined the airframe of the tip 18 with its two 20mm cannon in the wings with the ability to carry slipper-type auxiliary fuel tanks under the wings. Fifty nine were built in 1939, and a combined total of 277 tip 27s and 28s in 1940.

I-16 tip 28

The I-16 tip 28 combined the cannon armament of the tip 27 and the M-63 engine of the tip 24.

The cannon and 12.7mm armed versions of the I-16 were used as ground attack aircraft (notice this does not say 'exclusively') until enough Il-2s were available to replace them. The aircraft could also carry six unguided rockets, which gave it quite a powerful punch in this role, but the I-16 was at best lightly armoured, and so losses were high.

Although the Red Air Force lost huge numbers of I-16s, the Luftwaffe also suffered heavy casualties in the early part of the fighting, many of them inflicted by pilots flying the I-16.

The I-16 quickly faded from the front line. Production of the single seat fighter stopped in 1941, and so losses could only be replaced until stocks ran down. By the end of 1941 the number of I-16s with units on the front had dropped from just over 1,600 at the time of the German invasion to only 240, and by 1 July 1943 only 42 were still in operational use. The I-16 remained in use with units away from the front line for a little longer, but only 42 were still in use in the western part of the Soviet Union at the end of 1943 and in 1944 the aircraft was withdrawn in the west. They remained in use in the east almost to the end of the war, and the 888th IAP operated the type until August 1945, but none were used during the brief but effective Soviet invasion of Manchuria in the last few days of the war against Japan.

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_polikarpov_I-16.html