Der Kessel - Friday Squad Ops Stalingrad Airlift

[FiLtH]

  Sorry I just today had a chance to peek at my emails. Been to busy lately to do anything but work.

    I havent had a chance to look over the proposed design, but being that I fly with CptA and we as a squad share alot of chatter on what we like and dislike about certain setups, I have to say I prefer standard designs for FSOs with both sides sharing the attack/defend role. That said whatever comes down the pike, if the squad is flying and I have the time, Im there.

[Devil 505]

This FSO will use the "typical" standard scoring as indicated in the setup and not the scoring system I rolled out back in my last setup.

The only real big difference in this FSO is the addition of two objectives of which we have never seen before. The scoring for these two objectives isn't really all that "radical". Fly the "supplies" in, get points. Fly the "personnel" out, get points.

1) The Airlift Objective - In reality it's just another bomber mission, but instead of bombing the enemy field the objective is to land at A25, rearm, then take back off and land at the designated fields.
2) Pitomnik Defenders Objective - This is basically just the Ace Missions I do in my setups, expanded to two whole squads every frame. Their objective is to shoot down enemy aircraft (get points) and defend the airlift objective at Pitomnik.

EDIT: I would also like to add again that this FSO isn't really "single sided". The Allies will have multiple targets to attack outside of the Airlift Objective. My original idea was to have a standard style event with both sides having Offensive and Defensive Objectives, but I had to remove formations because the fact that the Drones are lost on the runway after Rearm. In doing this, the Axis lost a huge force multiplier and it's why I dropped the standard Offensive objectives for the Axis.

So the target breakdown will be more like 3 or 4 Allied Offensive Objectives to 1 Axis Offensive Objective.

I must disagree on your statement in item #1. This is hardly "another bomber mission". Bomber missions don't slow down, land, taxi, sit stationary, taxi again, then take off - all while under attack. This objective requires extreme coordination by the fighter escort, but the bombers may be so vulnerable that mounting an adequate defense for them proves impossible. You may want to also disable the rocket loadout from the I-16 as well. 

That said, I cant wait to see this event in action. This brings a very unique objective into FSO, and I hope it proves to be successful in application.

[Dantoo]

It was brought to my attention and verified that the I-16 rarely used this gun package and was rare in front line service.

Have you got a ready source for that? 

[Nefarious]

Have you got a ready source for that?  

It was brought up for discussion here:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,353240.msg4673556.html#msg4673556

I tend to to agree with the OP, I did a little snooping via internets and books on the shelf and by the amount of photographic evidence and historical accounts it seems like these were used sporadically at best, where as I can find several accounts of using the rockets in combat, which appears they had a fair supply of. So, not really a verifiable source, but one that could be reversible if needed.

I must disagree on your statement in item #1. This is hardly "another bomber mission". Bomber missions don't slow down, land, taxi, sit stationary, taxi again, then take off - all while under attack. This objective requires extreme coordination by the fighter escort, but the bombers may be so vulnerable that mounting an adequate defense for them proves impossible. You may want to also disable the rocket loadout from the I-16 as well.  

That said, I cant wait to see this event in action. This brings a very unique objective into FSO, and I hope it proves to be successful in application.

Yes you're absolutely right, poor wording on my part. I was referring more to the fact the axis still had an offensive style objective using bombers, which seems to be the concern of some by being "single-sided".

I hope it is successful too, thanks for your interest.

[branch37]

I give this setup a big +1 for innovation alone. Trying new things is hardly ever a bad thing. If it works out for the good, then maybe we can use it again in the future. If not, then lesson learned and carry on. Innovation is what keeps things fresh and keeps things from becoming stale.

[gyrene81]

I give this setup a big +1 for innovation alone. Trying new things is hardly ever a bad thing. If it works out for the good, then maybe we can use it again in the future. If not, then lesson learned and carry on. Innovation is what keeps things fresh and keeps things from becoming stale.

  absolutely. it's a real shame more people around here don't see things that way...

[MachNix]

For the Airlift objective:

1. Can the 111s make more than one trip until at total of 48 round trips is reached?

2. Is there a time limit such as all 111s need to be rearmed/landed at A25 (completion of first leg) by T+60?

3. Even though everyone in FSO is a good sport, how will you police the No-Jett-Ord rule for the 111s?

[Nefarious]

For the Airlift objective:

1. Can the 111s make more than one trip until at total of 48 round trips is reached?

2. Is there a time limit such as all 111s need to be rearmed/landed at A25 (completion of first leg) by T+60?

3. Even though everyone in FSO is a good sport, how will you police the No-Jett-Ord rule for the 111s?

1. 48 He 111s minimum must launch every frame. Due to the flight time involved it would be impossible for a He111 to fly to A25 and back to A71, A21 or A22 then back to A25. (If I understand you correctly). A direct flight to A25 NOE took me 37 minutes, 45 seconds in a fully loaded He 111.

2. Yes and No. I expect the Airlift to BEGIN REARMING operations at or before T+60. I will not penalize aircraft that are en-route, on final or taxiing so long as He 111s have began rearming at A25. This addition is going to be added into rules and settings at ahevents.org right now.

3. The CM Logs can tell me if any of the He111s dropped bombs and they will be checked every frame.

[Hopper]

1. 48 He 111s minimum must launch every frame. Due to the flight time involved it would be impossible for a He111 to fly to A25 and back to A71, A21 or A22 then back to A25. (If I understand you correctly). A direct flight to A25 NOE took me 37 minutes, 45 seconds in a fully loaded He 111.

2. Yes and No. I expect the Airlift to BEGIN REARMING operations at or before T+60. I will not penalize aircraft that are en-route, on final or taxiing so long as He 111s have began rearming at A25. This addition is going to be added into rules and settings at ahevents.org right now.

3. The CM Logs can tell me if any of the He111s dropped bombs and they will be checked every frame.

I was wondering how you would know.   

[ImADot]

I was wondering how you would know.   

They also show if you actually took off carrying bombs. 

[gyrene81]

They also show if you actually took off carrying bombs. 

what if i just shoved a bunch of chubby hookers with a sash that had the word "bomb" on it in my plane?   

[Nefarious]

The I-16 20mm option for the I-16 has been enabled.

Just not enough info or reason either way to disable it after more information was presented.

Good luck all.

[Devil 505]

The I-16 20mm option for the I-16 has been enabled.

Just not enough info or reason either way to disable it after more information was presented.

Good luck all.

It was brought up for discussion here:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,353240.msg4673556.html#msg4673556

I tend to to agree with the OP, I did a little snooping via internets and books on the shelf and by the amount of photographic evidence and historical accounts it seems like these were used sporadically at best, where as I can find several accounts of using the rockets in combat, which appears they had a fair supply of. So, not really a verifiable source, but one that could be reversible if needed.

So what exactly did you find that led to you reversing your initial decision?

[Nefarious]

So what exactly did you find that led to you reversing your initial decision?

I was contacted privately by a few members of the community with more evidence. Mainly being that there was not enough information either way to really make a rule removing them. Kind of like the 8 gun max load out for the P-47 which has been a strong FSO topic of discussion of the past.

Should have left it alone to begin with. <S>

[Devil 505]

Even if the member posted you privately, the evidence itself shouldn't be kept private. Please post here or in Krusty's thread. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who's interested.