Global.....Cooling?

[Changeup]

We orbit a giant nuclear reactor that produces more power than we could ever use.

We're alive because we're far enough from it to not get evaporated. 

[sunfan1121]

We're alive because we're far enough from it to not get evaporated.  

Solar energy is part of America's future. Concentrating solar power technology uses thermal energy to power conventional power plants. Low maintence cost combined with 24 hour power generation make CSP a viable option. Not to mention it's cheaper and safer than nuclear power. The Sonoran desert is big. The main advantage of a CSP plant is they use a much smaller plot of land. We could build hundreds of these plants in Arizona with a relatively low impact on the environment.  

[NatCigg]

let me guess. 1KW for 1 gallon of water?

I think we can get more power from hydro as well. Build some lakes and fill them with salmon. mmm, salmon.

[Brooke]

Its not entirely the government intervention...its the oil markets.

True -- a market establishes market pricing.

What I mean more precisely by "Unless the government continues to interfere in a way that greatly hampers the market" is that the US government currently does things like refusing pipelines, making it hard to drill for oil, and not granting export permits, which hampers markets.  If you hamper a market enough, you screw up pricing and supply (like the US government so foolishly did in the 1970's).  Yes, there was the oil embargo that caused some disruption, but the vast majority of the disruption was not the oil embargo but the foolish federal rationing regulations.

A market establishes a price relative to other goods and services.  When a government does things highly contrary to sound economics, it causes problems with that market and results in things like either significantly higher prices or significantly less supply.  Best is not to wreck a market through either stupidity or on purpose to create more-expensive oil, in my opinion.

[Ardy123]

Its not entirely the government intervention...its the oil markets.   Remember, to make fuel, you must have crude.  Four years ago, US traders had limits put on their overseas contracts.  Here's how the manipulation went:


Bombay buys millions........London buy hundreds of millions...........NY buys hundreds of millions.........Japan buys hundreds of millions....Bombay sells at an enormous profit because their co-workers bought contracts all day long and drove the price up.  And then they move backwards with sell orders on contracts that never get executed...just sold for even money or a little loss.  Its all from the same firms so the money stays in house for a net win.  That drives the spot price up and to hold it there, the initial contract buyer gets back in with profit...zero exposure except to us at the pumps.

By limiting their buys, they can't manipulate it.  No one got fined because it wasn't against the law.

This 

And for others, don't forget that Oil is traded internationally so even if production increases in the US (which it has), if World demand grows at a faster pace, well guess what, oil prices will continue to go up. Just imagine the oil demands of China & India when it is developed similar to the West (but unlike the west, home to almost half of the worlds population!!!).

[Brooke]

Concentrating solar power technology

There have been several pilot plants, none of which have been all that successful and many of which have gone out of business.  It seems like that could be a good power source, though, so maybe it was just due to days of very low oil prices and will be viable going forward.  I'm not an expert on the economics of it.

There is a great book on energy sources for the world "Sustainable Energy – without the hot air", by David MacKay, who is a professor of engineering at Cambridge and a science advisor to the UK Department of Energy.  He and I were in the same research group in graduate school, so I know firsthand that he is a very smart guy.  The main conclusion is that, if the world wants to reduce use of fossil fuels, it needs a lot more solar, nuclear, or both.

[Ardy123]

There have been several pilot plants, none of which have been all that successful and many of which have gone out of business.  It seems like that could be a good power source, though, so maybe it was just due to days of very low oil prices and will be viable going forward.  I'm not an expert on the economics of it.

There is a great book on energy sources for the world "Sustainable Energy – without the hot air", by David MacKay, who is a professor of engineering at Cambridge and a science advisor to the UK Department of Energy.  He and I were in the same research group in graduate school, so I know firsthand that he is a very smart guy.  The main conclusion is that, if the world wants to reduce use of fossil fuels, it needs a lot more solar, nuclear, or both.

Today as it stands... Solar and Wind cannot provide baseload power. But where it can REDUCE fossil fuel consumption is meeting peek or non-baseload power needs. Nat gas, while a fossil fuel, burns much cleaner than other options and we have plenty of it, thus for the time being, it looks as if the combination of Ngas and renewable is the way to go until better technology is developed making some of the less traditional models more economically feasible.

[Brooke]

This 

And for others, don't forget that Oil is traded internationally so even if production increases in the US (which it has), if World demand grows at a faster pace, well guess what, oil prices will continue to go up. Just imagine the oil demands of China & India when it is developed similar to the West (but unlike the west, home to almost half of the worlds population!!!).

Yes, demand increasing more than supply will result in increased prices.  However, regardless of what the demand is, if there is more supply, prices will be lower than if there is less supply.

The US has vast oil and gas still.  If you hamper production of that, you affect world-wide oil prices.  Government preclusion of natural gas export, for example, has a significant effect on natural gas pricing and world-wide markets.

What I said was "Unless the government continues to interfere in a way that greatly hampers the market, I believe that we will have fossil fuel for a long time without oil being the source of economic disaster."  I do believe that.  I do not believe that we will run out of oil anytime soon or that we will have some severe economic problems because of shortage of oil or gas -- unless our government creates the shortage intentionally or through blunders.

[Brooke]

Today as it stands... Solar and Wind cannot provide baseload power. But where it can REDUCE fossil fuel consumption is meeting peek or non-baseload power needs. Nat gas, while a fossil fuel, burns much cleaner than other options and we have plenty of it, thus for the time being, it looks as if the combination of Ngas and renewable is the way to go until better technology is developed making some of the less traditional models more economically feasible.

That's how I think of it, too.

[MADe]

The ultimate answer is not the dependence on only 1 method.
There are several types of solar options. Photovoltaic as well as using focused light to add heat energy to a liquid.
There is the wind option. Many places have huge wind alotments. The antarctic, south end of South America............
There is the nuclear option. Radioactive Thorium which is more plentiful and has way less dangerous waste product than uranium. New science.
There is the bio-fuel option. Peanut Oil. As well as others.
Water power generation. I believe low impact water generators are possible. Is it truly necessary to make huge dams? Tidal affects can be harnessed.
People power. Many peeps are health nuts. Why cannot people use static bicycles to generate power, get exercise at the same time. Very limited.
Fuel Cells. Hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe.
Did not Tesla have a method for harnessing the inheirant electricity of the planet? He got us the 1st water generation plant, Niagra Falls.

All of these could be used in a de-centralized power grid. That would allow fossil fuels to used for materials and emergency power generation.
Merely a matter of refusing the few to get rich at the worlds expense. I have no problem with peeps making money, its just at what cost.
Most modern wars are about oil, WW3 will make it all moot. None will survive a WW3 but the roaches.

[Brooke]

There is the aspect of scale.  Wind, people power, biofuels, etc. aren't going to do much.  The main things are fossil, nuclear, and solar.

[MADe]

There is the aspect of scale.  Wind, people power, biofuels, etc. aren't going to do much.  The main things are fossil, nuclear, and solar.

Yes but if you can create a de-centralized approach, a low voltage power grid would allow for increased low voltage products. A centralized power grid requires hi-voltage output to fill the grid. Cell phones should be required to have solar cells to help recharging.

Its all a matter of profits. Plenty of ways to get rich. Electricity has become as important as air and water, our society would break down with out it. We place ourselves at risk with the current methods.

[Brooke]

I don't think decentralization vs. centralization is all that important.  There are ways to transmit power over grids without huge loss, and decentralization has its own inefficiencies, too.

Some power sources (photovoltaic cells, solar heating of water) are well suited to decentralization and are (and will increasingly be) used that way.  Others are better suited to centralization (generally fossil, nuclear, and some types of solar power generation, such as concentrators or solar generation in desert areas transmitted then to non-desert areas).

[MADe]

Brooke,
This has been a nice convo, tanx for not getting smarmy with a lesser brained mortal.

Changeup,
The Earth's magnetic field is what keeps us alive and safe from being saturated by radiation. The distance is certainly important but not the only factor. he he
In fact you can make the argument that a little dose of radiation is what mutated our predecessors DNA to form us, as well as other environmental factors.
S

[sunfan1121]

Keep in mind energy conversion technology is only in it's infancy. You will be able to charge your cellphone using properual motion. That technology already exist, who knows where we'll be 20 years from now. Energy efficiency will be at a premium in the future.