OK…who's left here that played the Beta?

[-aper-]

AH Beta was fine. Flight model was way different and much more challenging compared to FM in AH now.

There were already players dedicated to particular planes like Fishu (FW190A8), Hristo (BF109G10), Torque (F4U1C), Visconti (C205), Fariz (SpitIX), Leonid (LA5FN) to name the few.

At first it was two-country war between Rooks and Bishops. The Knight land was deserted at the beginning.  Despite the game was free to play there were less gaming the game and more good fights then nowdays. Developers played in main arena quite often (HiTech, Natedog, Superfly) and despite it they were bringing new planes into the game much quicker at that time.

Everybody (the developers and the players) were very enthusiastic about the development of AH and it's future.
Now it looks like both parties are tired from what they are doing....

[blutic]

I wish we could get Daddog back here. Maybe a P-38 mission. Or the 332nd missing him would do it! <S> Sir!

[Karnak]

AH Beta was fine. Flight model was way different and much more challenging compared to FM in AH now.

That was due to inaccuracies, not because the FM was made easier as a game concession.  I recall in was Lazs who kept pushing on it and HTC reached the same conclusion, that turns were bleeding too much E, making BnZ aircraft more dominant and easier than they ought to have been as compared to the slower, more agile aircraft.

[Gman]

I believe Karnak is correct.  I remember in Beta and even shortly after that if you tried to pull some of the G's we do now, especially at low speed and alt, you would stall and end up in the dirt by comparison.  I remember the brewhaha over this, as guys who flew like Lazs(FM2/other turning planes) were at a massive, massive disadvantage if they didn't kill their target in the first turn or so.  The planes sure handled much more difficulty in beta, one way or the other, most people who didn't fly then would be really shocked at the difference.

Toad was the person who got me into my first real squadron.  I had flown with JG2 in beta, but it was maxed out at 32 pilots and then some, and was sort of chaos.  The 13th tas flew a regular aircraft (P51) and had guys on every night.  Lots of guys, I remember learning to fly the P51 with them back then and having a dozen wingman on with me nearly every night, and we were a very small squad back then, that was very hard to get invited into.  Toad, Rude, Animal, Oz..., so many others I can't remember off the top of my head kept me in the game when I was pretty much finished with it, and that's kept me around the bbs and the game other than a few spans of being away working. 

[Toad]

Great memories, Gman. Those were great times indeed. Hard to believe how personally close you can get to people in this game. I went and visited Sax and Beemer up in the Great White North. I was with OzKansas when the pancreatic cancer closed his eyes for the last time.

HTC created far more than a computer game.

[katanaso]

I remember the FM in Beta being a big change from the years of playing AW4W RR then AW FR.

When I came back several years ago, the FM seemed much nicer.  No idea on the realism, as I'm not a pilot, but it was definitely more enjoyable than what I recall when I firsted tried it in the 90's.

[Sabre]

I was there, and also arranged/CM'd what I believe was the first AH organized scenario, a Battle of Britain event. As I recall, we had about 16 to 20 participants, evenly split between Bf-109s and Spitfires. Are whole squadron, "The Buccaneers" came over to AH from Warbirds. One of our squadies, "Gonzo", was in the closed beta (or Alpha??), and talked us into participating in the open beta.  It was awesome to be on the ground floor of something that has endured.

[-aper-]

I believe Karnak is correct.  I remember in Beta and even shortly after that if you tried to pull some of the G's we do now, especially at low speed and alt, you would stall and end up in the dirt by comparison.  I remember the brewhaha over this, as guys who flew like Lazs(FM2/other turning planes) were at a massive, massive disadvantage if they didn't kill their target in the first turn or so. 

It affected only stick jerkers. The max AoA was respectively lesser for all planes. The main thing was to learn how to perform agile maneuvering via accurate and gentle stick movements. The people who learned it  (like Mitsu for example) did miracles in dogfights. 

That was due to inaccuracies, not because the FM was made easier as a game concession.  I recall in was Lazs who kept pushing on it and HTC reached the same conclusion, that turns were bleeding too much E, making BnZ aircraft more dominant and easier than they ought to have been as compared to the slower, more agile aircraft.

We know that any dogfight depends more on pilot skill than a plane performance. With old flight model it depended even more on pilot skill. Sure there were people who did not want to learn but blame FM instead.
But who knows, may be in real life BnZ planes were actually more dominant (if flown with skills) to TnB planes.

[Karnak]

It affected only stick jerkers. The max AoA was respectively lesser for all planes. The main thing was to learn how to perform agile maneuvering via accurate and gentle stick movements. The people who learned it  (like Mitsu for example) did miracles in dogfights. 

It affected planes that used maneuverability more than those that used speed because it reduced the usefulness of their strongest trait.

We know that any dogfight depends more on pilot skill than a plane performance. With old flight model it depended even more on pilot skill. Sure there were people who did not want to learn but blame FM instead.
But who knows, may be in real life BnZ planes were actually more dominant (if flown with skills) to TnB planes.

Yes, and they are in AH now as well, just not as dominant as they were before the change.  As has been made abundantly clear by my posts here, I favor the Mossie VI and I assure you the slow, turny planes are not much threat unless paired with something fast to make me bleed E out so the turny thing can catch me.

To argue that the early flight model was better is to argue that making turns bleed E unrealistically was better.

[-aper-]

It affected planes that used maneuverability more than those that used speed because it reduced the usefulness of their strongest trait.

Stats do not prove your point though

You can see in Beta tours 1,2,3 that some planes were better then other but nothing shows abnormal domination of BnZ planes.

[Karnak]

Doesn't mean the behavior of the aircraft was realistic.

I prefer greater accuracy.  You seem to prefer harder even at the expense of accuracy.

[-aper-]

Doesn't mean the behavior of the aircraft was realistic.

I prefer greater accuracy.  You seem to prefer harder even at the expense of accuracy.

It is not as simple as that.

HiTech and Pyro had years of FM development for WarBirds plus (correct me if I'm wrong) HiTech got some hours of real practice flying P-51.

That makes me think that FM in AH Beta was not a blunder but an attempt to represent the handling/behavior of a real plane as close as possible. As for data accuracy it affected all planes respectively, so it was not that big deal if it took 2-3 seconds more for ALL the planes to make a sustained turn.

[kvuo75]

anyone here from CK beta ?  what year was that 95 ?

yeah that's where I come from, the free CK/warbirds beta in 1995.. after it went live, I completely ditched the genre and got heavy into MS flight simulator until 2006..

[Citabria]

edit... will start a new thread for this topic instead of hijacking this one

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,356886.0.html

[RedTop]

Tour12 for me.....

VFJackal.....many moons ago!!!  amazing the lack of skill I have after so many years....geeeesh I'm a dummy!!!