P51D V Tiffy

[BnZs]

so what you guys are saying is that no matter what plane you are in...when you hit the 5g mark...all planes turn rate is the same?


im not trying to be obtuse and my question is not a troll, I want to understand what you are saying.

Turn rate and radius depends on g and airspeed. More g is good, more airspeed is bad. Best turn is achieved at the minimum speed at which the airplane can pull maximum allowable Gs. About 5 gs is the limit for the cartoon pilot in AH. at 300+ MPH IAS every prop plane in the game is above its cornering velocity and all turns are limited by G load. Since the G load is universally 5, almost all planes turn equally well at these high velocities. The exception are plaNes which have control authority issues preventing them from pulling blackout. But I find this isn`t much of a factor in AHII, even the 109s and Zeros don`t have problems except at speeds usually too impractically high for dogfightinh. Our "pilot" apparently has a lot of upper body strength 

[Tank-Ace]

The physics dictate that any two aircraft flying at a constant 350mph and pulling 5g's will have the same turn radius and rate.

It doesn't matter if Its a P-51, a DrI, or an F-15. Hell, if you get the USS Ronald Reagan going 350mph and put it in a 5g turn, the physics dictate that it will be turning just as tight as the P-51.

[The Fugitive]

The physics may not be relevant to your point but that's not what you first posted. Now you're just saying some players don't know how aircraft turn. What you first posted made it seem that you're one of them. You can clear that up by agreeing with BnZs.

Below is my first comment in this thread....

Agreed, and I think that is where the issue with ponies running comes from. Most people believe like BnZs said, "Because it is the second worst turning fighter in the game". If you push it a bit and is a decent turning plane, one of the best at speed. The biggest trick is just knowing when to turn and by how much.

It was in reply to SAJ73 post, "I don't agree, I am not saying it's a turny plane. But it can be turned with many of the best if you just know how to snap up some E here and there during the fight. It is challenging, but that's the fun part of it I think."

I may not have said it well, but if you read the post you can see where the topic is now about being surprised by a pony that turns to fight. It was mentioned that if flown well it can turn with "many of the best". As I thought we were talking about game play due to relative skill levels and the perceived notion that "ponies can't turn" and well fought pony CAN turn and will surprise a player.

That is the only point I'm looking to make here. Newbs believe that ponies can't turn and so run with them.    

[ink]

Turn rate and radius depends on g and airspeed. More g is good, more airspeed is bad. Best turn is achieved at the minimum speed at which the airplane can pull maximum allowable Gs. About 5 gs is the limit for the cartoon pilot in AH. at 300+ MPH IAS every prop plane in the game is above its cornering velocity and all turns are limited by G load. Since the G load is universally 5, almost all planes turn equally well at these high velocities. The exception are plaNes which have control authority issues preventing them from pulling blackout. But I find this isn`t much of a factor in AHII, even the 109s and Zeros don`t have problems except at speeds usually too impractically high for dogfightinh. Our "pilot" apparently has a lot of upper body strength 

ok I understand....I think.....haha


I know the planes in AH very well.....all the fighters that is....I am not a plane expert by any means and was not a serious plane enthusiast before....I only learned the planes in AH to "know my enemy"

I do know for sure planes turn rates are different at different speeds....such like the zero at high speeds get stiff controls.... 38 compresses...KI84 breaks apart over 500....ECT ECT


it seems weird that a zero at 400 and 5gs has the same turn rate a 51 does at the same G and speed.....

[BnZs]

Turning hard at such speeds, angles will be gained by whoever drops their speed down closer to corner velocity quickest. Interstingly, high wing-loaded planes have a disadvantage which can become a temporary advantage in this situation:  A higher wingloaded plane must use a higher angle of attack to generate the same G, which generates more induced drag. So a 190 pulling max gs at 350 is bleeding more speed off than a Spit doing that same. But if the Spit driver has any sense at all he will be off the throttle  and the 190 drivers advantage will be *very* temporary. 

[ink]

Turning hard at such speeds, angles will be gained by whoever drops their speed down closer to corner velocity quickest. Interstingly, high wing-loaded planes have a disadvantage which can become a temporary advantage in this situation:  A higher wingloaded plane must use a higher angle of attack to generate the same G, which generates more induced drag. So a 190 pulling max gs at 350 is bleeding more speed off than a Spit doing that same. But if the Spit driver has any sense at all he will be off the throttle  and the 190 drivers advantage will be *very* temporary. 

 is there a place that lists the corner speeds of the planes in AH?

[BnZs]

is there a place that lists the corner speeds of the planes in AH?

When you`re riding the tunnel and hearing the horn tell you that you`re at max aoa simultaneously, there you go. But it won`t last, no plane in the game has the thrust to maintain corner except maybe the 163. That`s why so many tactics like your basic Immelman involve bAnking some E, that`s why you don`t just fly around at corner all the time, and that`s why dogfighting is complicated

[ink]

When you`re riding the tunnel and hearing the horn tell you that you`re at max aoa simultaneously, there you go. But it won`t last, no plane in the game has the thrust to maintain corner except maybe the 163. That`s why so many tactics like your basic Immelman involve bAnking some E, that`s why you don`t just fly around at corner all the time, and that`s why dogfighting is complicated

and thats why I love dogfighting


and thanx for explaining it....even though I had an attitude at first

[morfiend]

is there a place that lists the corner speeds of the planes in AH?

  Find the clean stall speed of the A/C and multiply by 2.44!   Why 2.44 because it's the square root of 6,which is the blackout Gload,not 5 G's.

  So if a plane stalls at 100mph the corner speed would be 244mph,above that speed you are limited by blackout,below that speed you can stall the plane before you can blackout.


  Players often confuse turn rate and turn radious,turn rate would be measured in degrees per second and turn radious would be measure in feet or yards/meters.



   

[Tank-Ace]

Morfiend, on that note, do you know how to calculate the best glide speed for an aircraft?

[ink]

  Find the clean stall speed of the A/C and multiply by 2.44!   Why 2.44 because it's the square root of 6,which is the blackout Gload,not 5 G's.

  So if a plane stalls at 100mph the corner speed would be 244mph,above that speed you are limited by blackout,below that speed you can stall the plane before you can blackout.


  Players often confuse turn rate and turn radious,turn rate would be measured in degrees per second and turn radious would be measure in feet or yards/meters.



   

sweet


why does the math work?  why multiply the Gs?

maybe thats a stupid question.....

I know yes there are stupid questions.....

[FLS]

The math works because stall speed varies with weight and you're increasing the stall speed to match the increase in wing load. Corner speed is the stall speed at 6G.

[Kingpin]

The math works because stall speed varies with weight and you're increasing the stall speed to match the increase in wing load. Corner speed is the stall speed at 6G.

So the gravity component in wing-loading is squared?  And that is why you use the square root of 6, as that is the maximum G-force that can be maintained without blackout?

[ink]

The math works because stall speed varies with weight and you're increasing the stall speed to match the increase in wing load. Corner speed is the stall speed at 6G.

cc that

[BnZs]

And the plane with the lower wing loading and stall speed will almost invariably hold the advantage in minimum turn radius. Its turn rate at corner will also be better.  But a plane with a heavier wing loading and powerful engine can sometimes generate equal or greater sustained turn rate than one with a lower wing loading by having the thrust to keep on fighting induced drag to generate more G. Turn rate is more important in nose to tail chases, such as two planes chasing each other in a left hand turn. Turn radius and slow flying ability in general is more important in nose-to-nose turning, such as comes up in a flat scissors.