Unperk the Mosquito Mk. XVI

[Karnak]

tuton25,

I said I wasn't aware of much use by it at low level.  I did not say I wasn't aware of any use by it at low level.

I.e., I know about that attack but so far as I know such use was rare.  The famous precision anti-Gestapo raids were all Mk IVs and Mk VIs,  You want a unperked, glass nosed Mossie, advocate for the Mk IV to be added.

[jeffdn]

A Ta-152 with enough gas that is orbiting at altitude (28,000+ ft) can run down any bomber in this game. It's just a matter of time. In regards to the Mosquito Mk. XVI, their airframe can't even absorb one lonely tater in my experience. Furthermore, their lack of defensive armament really means I can just saddle up and wait for a beautiful shot, once the two drones have been handily dispatched.

[BluBerry]

A Ta-152 with enough gas that is orbiting at altitude (28,000+ ft) can run down any bomber in this game. It's just a matter of time. In regards to the Mosquito Mk. XVI, their airframe can't even absorb one lonely tater in my experience. Furthermore, their lack of defensive armament really means I can just saddle up and wait for a beautiful shot, once the two drones have been handily dispatched.

5k more and you would be in icon range of Zoney

[Karnak]

Point 4) At 10K the MossieXVI will be caught by every Dora, Pony, 109-G14, 109-K4, Tempest, Typhoon, F4U-4, La7, Spit16, Spit14, Ta-152, YAK-3, Yak-9.

A Ta-152 with enough gas that is orbiting at altitude (28,000+ ft) can run down any bomber in this game. It's just a matter of time. In regards to the Mosquito Mk. XVI, their airframe can't even absorb one lonely tater in my experience. Furthermore, their lack of defensive armament really means I can just saddle up and wait for a beautiful shot, once the two drones have been handily dispatched.

I lost one Mossie XVI to a co-alt Bf109K-4 that had climbed and failed to intercept an earlier raid.  It took him about 20 minutes to catch me even though he started less than 4000 yards from me after my bomb run.  And he ran out of fuel a minute after getting me.

Great.  So, getting very lucky to be in position he still almost failed to get me.

Just saying such and such fighter is faster is great and all, but it ignores the biggest challenge of intercepting a Mk XVI.  You can't just pretend that you poof into existence and position in your faster fighter.  Barring getting lucky as in my Bf109K-4's case or in jeffdn's example is just that, getting lucky.  You can't rely on luck to be successful.  You have to climb to intercept and that changes your "Look at all these faster fighters." example into something that not only doesn't favor the fighters, it massively favors the Mossie, just as it did in WWII.  A Bf109K-4 taking off of a sea level airfield to intercept a Mossie XVI as it passes over the airfield at 28,000ft would be so far behind the Mossie by the time the K-4 reach 28,000ft that it would have to run on WEP for more than 45 minutes to catch up, an impossibility.

[lunatic1]

i have chased bombers that were 30'000 ft before usally 4 to 5 sectors just to get shot down.usally because i'm bored

[Zoney]

Never ever check your high 6 if you are at 28k.  You are completely safe up there.  

[Karnak]

i have chased bombers that were 30'000 ft before usally 4 to 5 sectors just to get shot down.usally because i'm bored

4-5 sectors won't catch a Mossie by any piston fighter in the game.

[Lusche]

A Bf109K-4 taking off of a sea level airfield to intercept a Mossie XVI as it passes over the airfield at 28,000ft would be so far behind the Mossie by the time the K-4 reach 28,000ft that it would have to run on WEP for more than 45 minutes to catch up, an impossibility.

Well, taking off for a 28k bomber from the base he's just flying over is bad idea in any case. Unfortunately, it's the modus operandi of many fighter pilots in the game. You could have seen that in the past with big raids to the central strats:
Even when the target was clear and obvious and the altitude of the bomber was well known, you still could see lots of fighters taking off from each base the mission just flew over and then trying to chase them down.

Taking off 4 sectors in front of them? Setting an intercept course instead of having the nose pointed at the mission all the time? Awaiting them over the target? No way.  
I guess that's the same people who claim "28k buffs are impossible to catch  


To get back to your example: A 109K using full WEP takes 8 minutes to get to 28k from sea level, covering about 26 miles. The mossie will have traveled about 40-50 miles in that time, so the 109 pilot would have to accelerate to (mil) top speed and then catch up with only 50-60 mph speed advantage

[Lusche]

Here are some speed differentials between some bombers and a 109K at 25k. Bomber speeds were determined by testing them in that particular configuration:

[Vinkman]

The stoppability of bombers is mostly a function of time investment from the bomber pilot side. Mossie XVI significantly shortens the required time investment.

Ok I'll buy that.

It is 15k of ord, but you get to do almost two trips for the same time - assuming the lancaster also RTB and does not bomb and bail.

It's not twice as fast. Lancs will do 270 at 12K.  Mossies XVI will do 360.

In a field attack that is correct,  not no in HQ raids. See #1, survivability is mostly a function of time investment. How many players climb to 28k to bomb a base?

For a strat attack you fly so far that all buffs will achieve whatever height they want. Not sure the speed difference really equates to higher alts in the stat case.

At 10K a 262 can be caught by those planes. This is a theoretical exercise. In practice, "how long" it takes to catch the mossie matters. Will a tempest and F4U-4 (perked rides), chase the XVI all the way to the deck at 500 mph into a gaggle of fighters happy to swarm on a perked ride? A single XVI free from its formation can maneuver and make it difficult for the planes above to get a shot - long enough for help to arrive. The XVI can turn just as good or better than half that list.

By caught, I don;t mean in a dive.   If a Mossie is zooming in at 10k a 5K fighter(above mentioned)  will be able to intercept and keep them from landing back home. And when you catch them they are easy pickings, unlike the deathstars that other buff formations are.

The actual perk price makes only little difference. It is 80% psychology and only 20% perk economy. The XVI will get almost the same use if it was perked 10, 20 or 30 perks. If on the other hand the perk tag is completely removed, the suicidal players will find a "good" use for it. These same players will not use it if it cost even 1 perk. For this reason "tuning" is difficult, it is more of an all or nothing deal. If the price is halved or doubled makes little difference to me as long as it is not removed.

I just don't see this plane as debalancing or having a game altering impact if it were free. Mossie is a trade off bomber. it's trading off time of persuit for zero defensive guns.

That seems resonable on it's own. I think the perks might be overkill. but if they had a trial period with no perks we'd see.  

As Lusche has shown the Spit14 did not become an arena monster when unperked. Because it has major deficiencies to offset its assets. I think the OP is saying the Mossie has minuses to offset it's plusses.  

[Karnak]

It's not twice as fast. Lancs will do 270 at 12K.  Mossies XVI will do 360.

Factor in climbing time.

I think the OP is saying the Mossie has minuses to offset it's plusses. 

He is saying that, but he is wrong.

[jeffdn]

You have to climb to intercept and that changes your "Look at all these faster fighters." example into something that not only doesn't favor the fighters, it massively favors the Mossie, just as it did in WWII.  A Bf109K-4 taking off of a sea level airfield to intercept a Mossie XVI as it passes over the airfield at 28,000ft would be so far behind the Mossie by the time the K-4 reach 28,000ft that it would have to run on WEP for more than 45 minutes to catch up, an impossibility.

There are a few people on each country that hunt for bombers. We read the dar bars and position ourselves in places where bombers will likely be transiting. It's a pretty accurate science, Only very, very rarely do I end a sortie without having encountered and tangled with at least one set of bombers. Mossies are faster, but they have no teeth. At the end of the day, they are one of the easiest targets in the game for buff hunters.

[Karnak]

There are a few people on each country that hunt for bombers. We read the dar bars and position ourselves in places where bombers will likely be transiting. It's a pretty accurate science, Only very, very rarely do I end a sortie without having encountered and tangled with at least one set of bombers. Mossies are faster, but they have no teeth. At the end of the day, they are one of the easiest targets in the game for buff hunters.

As the Mossie pilot I look for signs of enemy activity and adjust my course to avoid them.  I have never been caught when doing so.  The three I have lost have been due to bad luck of running into a Bf109K-4 at my altitude who stated he was only up there to intercept an earlier raid that he had missed, an Me163 because the strats were so close to the HQ and a Ta152 when I hit the strats knowing the enemy was there and waiting for me.  A smart, aware Mossie pilot is hard to catch.

[Randy1]

Seems to me on any perk ride the question is how effective is the perk value on the control of the planes usage?

[Tank-Ace]

I don't see why you would use a Mossie XVI since it can't shoot back (in large NOE raids)....
Why wouldn't you take a fast, well defended bomber like a B-26 and take almost twice the bombload???
If it was unperked it would see about as much use as the Boston 3....

Because the purpose of an NOE raid is to capture the base with minimal resistance. The lancaster (the current most common NOE bomber due to a combination of its relatively high speed of ~250mph at sea level and 14k bomb load, compared to the ~260 of the B-26, with 4k of bombs and far more defensive firepower, or the B-17 with its 225mph, and 6k of bombs, and the second best defense of any bomber in the game) is already slaughtered whenever an NOE raid gets detected, and it can shoot back about as well as a B-26 can from the rear.

Additionally, the Mossie 16 can even outrun some of the more common NOE fighters in a heavy configuration, such as the 110, and N1K2, and 190A-8. But it can also keep up with any fighter MUCH better, and will significantly decrease the amount of warning that defenders have, and the time they have to up fighters.



Second, I do take the B-26 when I'm out to bomb a target I know is already defended. But the Mossie 16 is several orders of magnitude better in the role of a penetration bomber. Second, the Mossie 16 can carry a heavier bomb load than the B-26.

Third, it would 100% supplant usage of the Boston III (with the exception of perk farming), as it is far faster than the Boston, about as likely to shoot something down in a dogfight, and carries a heavier bombload (max of 2.5x what the Boston can carry).

Dude, for the purpose of town busting from medium altitudes the XVI mossie with without peers. That supersized beer keg it carriers in the bay was not called the block buster for nothing. Players have no clue how to use this plane. For tactical bombing leave the drones at home and come with a single plane. It is FAR more survivable in a fighter environment than any Lanc formation, will climb to 10k AGL in just over 3 minutes and will RTB at 400+ mph (shallow dive) to make another run, while the lanc formation is still trying to make a 15miles radius turn towards the target.

Two (singles) of these babies can flatten a town by themselves. My record is 23 structures and field guns destroyed by one(!) cookie. The system messages overflowed the (expanded) text buffer and I had to scroll back in order to count the messages Satisfaction cannot describe it. On that sortie I dropped from 12k through a fighters CAP, threw off a high P-51 that jumped me immediately after the drop and made it home without a scratch.

Defensive guns are just a distraction from the main mission.

Given that its also a perk bomber, I'm factoring in survival as part of "effectivness". At simply doing the job of getting ordnance onto target, its easily the second best bomber in the game, with only the Ar 234 even in the same category.