Author Topic: tank main gun shooting planes down.  (Read 9785 times)

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #105 on: April 05, 2014, 03:49:43 PM »
Killed my first plane today on my 5th try ,,, on a 90 degree deflection shot non the less. I like that gamy stuff, the satisfaction was i n t e n s e :t
Forget other tanks, I'll hunt airplanes in GVs.
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Offline Mano

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #106 on: April 05, 2014, 11:28:54 PM »
It is amazing to me that poor SA on the pilots part is blamed on the non flying tank trying not to get killed by an AIRPLANE, don't like getting shot at by tanks!!  Stay away from the ground!
Tanks can't fly, they can't bomb, they can't go very fast,, they have one defensive tool, their guns,, and you want to nerf that as well?  You have the whole sky to avoid them, and yet you come here and whine about them shooting you down because you were to close to the ground!
 if your complaining about getting shot up on the runway while taking off I'm guessing you forgot to look around and see why the base was flashing to start with,
The trains in this game will shoot you down quick enough but no one complains about that, we need more trains,more armed convoys, more town and factory defenses,, keep the planes at alt, fighting each other instead of vulching tanks and whining about it when it doesn't work out!

Well that's my rant for the day!   



Whiskey makes a good point. If you up a flashing base you will either get vulched or killed by a GV. That's the risk you take.

Tank turrets cannot aim very high.  Get some altitude and the tanks will not hit you. I'd be more concerned with ant Wirbles or ostwinds down there.

 :salute
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Offline chaser

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #107 on: April 06, 2014, 02:27:21 AM »


Whiskey makes a good point. If you up a flashing base you will either get vulched or killed by a GV. That's the risk you take.

Tank turrets cannot aim very high.  Get some altitude and the tanks will not hit you. I'd be more concerned with ant Wirbles or ostwinds down there.

 :salute

Can't believe I've missed this thread so far.

Shooting down planes trying to strafe me is one of my favorite things to do. and since we have impenetrable trees made of the strongest thing on Earth in the game, I also enjoy putting a HE shell in the top of a tree as a plane flies low over it. Same works for putting an HE in the ground right in front of you if a plane is making a low pass over you.

Offline Widewing

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #108 on: April 06, 2014, 02:55:23 AM »
I always smile when I see some guy strafing a tank while skimming the trees. Bad practice. If the tanks don't shoot 'em, the trees claim many.

Never attack a GV at less than a 45 degree angle. The exceptions are M3s and Jeeps. Even then, they have a machine gun and the trees can be a surprise.

If the GV is a Wirbelwind or Ostwind, I prefer to dive bomb almost vertically. This makes it hard for them to get guns on you. Shooting straight up is the toughest shot for the Wirbel and Osti.

When possible, double-team the Wirbel and Osti. One draws fire while the other attacks.
My regards,

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Offline bustr

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #109 on: April 06, 2014, 03:04:51 AM »
So all of you tank gods, tell us how Rudel pulled off killing 519 tanks in WW2 with his BK 3.7 cannons with a Ju87 inside of 100m.  Let alone AH tankers snap shoot that slow moving coffin from the air left and right since the introduction of commander mode. While all of you are at it,  Do I need to start calling out WW2 writers, researchers, and historians for not consulting you about it? And all of the diaries of all the WW2 pilots who were there with Rudel? Are you tacitly saying they are all lieing?

This is a game using ww2 equipment. In ww2 the tanks did not shoot down airplanes like our tank gods in AH do. Or is Rudel's record a lie?

Which is it guys?

And Widewing,

Rudel and Ruffer both fired inside of 100yds at a 30 degree angle to pierce the 60 degree upper side armor of the T-34(s). Hitech has modeled the BK 3.7 carbide round correctly, which I proved in testing. The Ju87 G2 is modeled just fine to kill tanks in the same manner Rudel killed 519 tanks in ww2. The game is not modeling ww2 tanks as faithfully(restrictively) as the aircraft are modeled.

So Widewing have you tested the BK 3.7 offline in the manner I outlined from the real war tactics used by Ju87 and Hs 129 pilots in Russia?
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


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Offline bozon

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #110 on: April 06, 2014, 04:06:14 AM »
Can't believe I've missed this thread so far.

Shooting down planes trying to strafe me is one of my favorite things to do. and since we have impenetrable trees made of the strongest thing on Earth in the game, I also enjoy putting a HE shell in the top of a tree as a plane flies low over it. Same works for putting an HE in the ground right in front of you if a plane is making a low pass over you.
At the same time, tree branches protect your tank from just about anything. The leaves are made of kevlar and the wood is filled with concrete it seems.

We would not have to strafe GVs if the ords in A-bases were not kept in camping-tents that can be strafed down with machine guns. If BS like tanks firing at planes is to stay in the game, the proper counter is bombs on the planes. If GVs dont want to be bombed by planes they should attack V-bases. If someone attacks an A-base, I have a special little thing filled with 4000 lbs of explosives and dirty underwear ready for the perked tanks. As long as I have that, please, fire away with the main gun.

The problem is that a single P-51/LA7 will come along in a suicide run and strafe down the ord bunkers, completely disabling ordnance in one fell gamy swoop. There's also a twist on that that involve a B17/24 at 20,000 feet with laser guided bombs. The appropriate gamy balancy thingy to do is that destroying ord bunker also disable ammo for the main guns of tanks (and put an ord bunker in V-fields). How about that? It is only logical that tank shells are kept in the same tent as the 500 lbs bombs.
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #111 on: April 06, 2014, 07:20:54 AM »
The tanks would have their basic load out regardless. Ammo resupply should not be possible. There is no distinction between repair parts and ammunition.

Snailman, I do not really know how the programming works. But, if a player is being shot at and they go to position 2, could that void them from position 1? In bombers, the gunners I guess are never wounded, they weapon is destroyed or not.

Widewing, I started flying the gun stuka toward the end of my playing time. If there were no WWs, you could probably pull off angled attacks. If there were, dodging the "Kevlar/steel/unobtanium" lined trees was generally very effective. With other airplanes in the air, WW gunners typically scan in a arc oriented up, not sideways. So, had a pretty good MO flying around on the deck poping tanks and WWs. Come charging out of the woods pow pow pop! Or, pow pow tower!

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Offline Widewing

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #112 on: April 06, 2014, 10:29:53 AM »
Bustr and dirtdart, I wasn't commenting on Ju 87s and IL-2s. I should have been more specific. I was referring to the guys in fighters who strafe low. Many don't pull off, but overfly.

Strafing with MGs is usually not productive on tanks, except for the Hetzer and M18. Both can be killed by MG fire concentrated on the top armor. Cannon armed fighters can disable a track or engine on heavier tanks. Against heavier tanks, the 40mm in the Hurricane IID is the most effective, with the 37mm in the Yak-9T next. Both are most effective against top armor. I find the 37mm on the P-39 is marginally useful. It will kill lightly armored vehicles, but is largely useless  against the typical tank.

Now, to the WWs. I'll up a WW for base defense. I have tracers turned off. Why show everyone that you're there, or exactly where you are? For me, low level attackers are toast... I get a lot of kills on passing high angle deflection shots (no doubt aided by 30 years of trap, skeet and sporting clays). Again, for me, the toughest attack to spot and to meet is a pure vertical dive bomb run. I figured if it's hard for me to defend, it should be hard for others too. I can't recall the last time I even took damage from a WW when attacking this way. Especially, if I corkscrew the dive a bit. I use that tactic if I'm defending alone. I'll drop one bomb from about 1k up. If there are multiple WWs and they are supporting each other, I'll drop at least two from a higher altitude. The other day, I found four WWs lined up in almost perfect spacing. I pickled off 4 bombs in sequence. Killed #1, #2, #3 and tracked #4. A friendly GV killed him a few minutes later.

Naturally, the best way to deal with WWs is to double-team them. In this scenario, you don't want or need pure vertical attacks. It takes some cooperation, but two properly armed aircraft can kill any WW easily if they work the tactics right. One rolls in first. The second rolls in a few seconds later, from the opposite direction. The WW driver has to choose one or the other. Which ever one he fires on, that plane pulls off and jinks. The second aircraft, unopposed, kills the WW.

Many WW drivers fail to recognize the coordinated attackers and re-up over and over, with the same result every time. If both are in bombers like the A-20 or Tu-2, when out of bombs, one of the pair goes to rearm. The second harasses the enemy and keeps him occupied. When rearmed, they switch. When the second aircraft returns, the routine is once again implemented. If it's one A-20 and a Stuka or IL-2, rearming will depend on what is expended.

It continues until the GVs either quit or decide to get an aircraft to either pork the ordnance or attack the aircraft. Killing the ord doesn't always help much, because we can still rearm.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Reaper90

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #113 on: April 06, 2014, 11:32:37 AM »
I don't disagree, but then HTC would have first to provide "buttoned up" stations to all tanks, which is a lot of additional work.

Re: "buttoned up"

when you are not in the commander's position, i.e. you're looking through the gunsite..... the commander's position is buttoned up. Every GV in this game can be driven from that position if aircraft are in the area.

maybe it's just me, but if I can be insta-towered by a single shot pilot kill in an aircraft, the same should apply to GVs. If you are driving from the commander's position and you take a .50 cal to the head, it should be insta-tower, not just loss of that crew position.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #114 on: April 06, 2014, 12:01:19 PM »
So all of you tank gods, tell us how Rudel pulled off killing 519 tanks in WW2 with his BK 3.7 cannons with a Ju87 inside of 100m.  Let alone AH tankers snap shoot that slow moving coffin from the air left and right since the introduction of commander mode. While all of you are at it,  Do I need to start calling out WW2 writers, researchers, and historians for not consulting you about it? And all of the diaries of all the WW2 pilots who were there with Rudel? Are you tacitly saying they are all lieing?

This is a game using ww2 equipment. In ww2 the tanks did not shoot down airplanes like our tank gods in AH do. Or is Rudel's record a lie?

Which is it guys?


...The difference is, our lives don't depend on the limited ammunition we're carrying to defend us from other tanks/complete our mission.  We have unlimited ammunition and nothing at stake, so we can afford to take the low percentage shot at the aircraft.  They couldn't.  Couple that with the limited traverse things Saxman mentioned, and that's the reason.

I hadn't realized there were limitations IRL on how the turret could move.  I'm guessing it's not in the game for the same reason engine management isn't in the planes, it's not fun.

Wiley.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #115 on: April 06, 2014, 12:28:29 PM »
Also, . . .

I think everyone confuses the presence of a commander's position with the presence of an un-buttoned commander turret. Instead, you might consider that it is compensation for the lack of modeling of the turrents (where turrents exist they would be the glass views at the commander's cupola position), or periscopes. Since the driver positions have been removed it would be extremely prejudicial to decide to make vehicles subject to a single bullet kill.
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Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #116 on: April 06, 2014, 12:35:36 PM »
Widewing, I think the topic at end is not the bombing part. It's the use of planes like the 410 with the 50mm or the B25H that are rendered useless in AH against a descent tanker. Kind of like torpedo planes that are blown up by a 5" gunner before they can even get in range from the fleet. It's restricting the range of "things to do" to have fun in Aces High.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #117 on: April 06, 2014, 12:48:33 PM »
Widewing, I think the topic at end is not the bombing part. It's the use of planes like the 410 with the 50mm or the B25H that are rendered useless in AH against a descent tanker.


Absolutely not. I never had any problems using any tank buster, be it Il-2, B25H or even the 410 (though it's somewhat more limited due to it's HE ammo) against even "decent tankers", because in about any plane you can stay out of the main gun's limited vertical arc of fire.
It's been extremely rare for me to be main gunned, and usually it's just because of a very sloppy approach on my part, for which a good tanker can make me pay.
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Offline kvuo75

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #118 on: April 06, 2014, 12:48:53 PM »
Rudel and Ruffer both fired inside of 100yds at a 30 degree angle

BS
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #119 on: April 06, 2014, 01:09:59 PM »
some weather would be nice, a good solid cloud layer @1000 foot agl every now and then.
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