A close call for some Lanc's.

[pops57]

Calling A big BS on you there Shifty. I was there-- what tmetal suggested is correct,jg11 did not appear to make any change in course to AVOID the bombers you flew straight and happened to pass in front of them (close enough to draw fire) We were still at that time trying to close with jg11 and were strung out. The lack of a called for course change placed us directly in the path of the bomber group. Had we changed course to avoid the group we would have been even further from the 190s at the very time the bombers them selves were firing on you and the escorts were diving! Not something you do without orders! Sure the already diving escorts would have left you alone--sure they would! Get real man! And get over it! Flight lead put us right in the middle of an attacking pack of bombers with escorts diving in, when a simple course change call could have avoided the whole contact. Could we have not touched our triggers--sure--- but to say that alone would have changed the out come is conjecture at best, when a group course change could have separated the two sides completely. Some of this is indeed at Stampf's feet. Maybe everyone should --look within--as well as looking from others view points! It's a game for crying out loud! pops out  

[Slash27]

Slash how many times do I have to tell you to hold your flight lead's hand at all times, and always look both ways before crossing an enemy formation!

Sound advice. The start of my night did not go well.

[nooby52]

I got lost and couldn't find my squad for 30 minutes if that makes anyone feel better.

LOL Slash, I'm always getting seperated from the herd and have to spend the next 10 minutes on radio.

[Shifty]

Calling A big BS on you there Shifty. I was there-- what tmetal suggested is correct,jg11 did not appear to make any change in course to AVOID the bombers you flew straight and happened to pass in front of them (close enough to draw fire) We were still at that time trying to close with jg11 and were strung out. The lack of a called for course change placed us directly in the path of the bomber group. Had we changed course to avoid the group we would have been even further from the 190s at the very time the bombers them selves were firing on you and the escorts were diving! Not something you do without orders! Sure the already diving escorts would have left you alone--sure they would! Get real man! And get over it! Flight lead put us right in the middle of an attacking pack of bombers with escorts diving in, when a simple course change call could have avoided the whole contact. Could we have not touched our triggers--sure--- but to say that alone would have changed the out come is conjecture at best, when a group course change could have separated the two sides completely. Some of this is indeed at Stampf's feet. Maybe everyone should --look within--as well as looking from others view points! It's a game for crying out loud! pops out  

I was never was upset so I don't need to get over it. It was exactly the kind of thing I would expect from you guys. I was laughing at you when it happened. Now that you're admiting you guys can't outfly Lancs you see coming way before icon range with 109s and are attempting to blame your actions on Stampf..  Its even funnier. Thanks!

[captain1ma]

its a shame i wasn't there, maybe things might have gone differently. publicly beating each other up is going well too i see. lets all take a deep breath and look forward to this Friday and hope things go better. in the mean time, lets agree that things didn't go as planned and try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

have a nice day! <S>

[pops57]

 you are one funny dude Shifty.

I was never was upset so I don't need to get over it. It was exactly the kind of thing I would expect from you guys. I was laughing at you when it happened. Now that you're admiting you guys can't outfly Lancs you see coming way before icon range with 109s and are attempting to blame your actions on Stampf..  Its even funnier. Thanks!

[snakeplissken]

Plissken North. . . "Alright guys.  We are going to turn due . . .uh . . . due . . .ahm . . . due right." 

[Slash27]

LOL Slash, I'm always getting seperated from the herd and have to spend the next 10 minutes on radio.

I think they quit answering me after 20 minutes or so.

[ReVo]

JG11: The only Luft squad to ever complain about getting a fight. 

[Hajo]

We were flying F8s at 20K with ord.  We were flying just a few mph over stall speed.  The Lancs were probably faster then us.

We showed no intention of attacking the Lancs.  We flew directly overhead close enough to be hit by the Lancs defensive guns.

We did not change course until attacked by the escorts.  Even then we were sitting ducks.

Maneuvering at that alt to avoid them when we finally saw them would have been fruitless and taken as an intention to attack.

We were between a hard place and a hard place.  We did the best we could to show no intention of attacking the Lancasters.

[Devil 505]

JG11: The only Luft squad to ever complain about getting a fight. 

It's not about getting the fight. It's about following the objective.

Remember frame 3 of February when we found those unescorted Bostons on our fighter sweep? I had half of you guys screaming in my ear for calling you off  before you could make a pass with them. Attacking the buffs wasn't our objective, there were defenders waiting for them. All we needed to do was call out their location - and we did. If we had chased the Bostons, we would have been in no position to deal with the Hurricanes that were our objective. Either they would have attacked our scattered gruppe, or bypassed us altogether and attacked the Stukas we were to protect.

As it turned out, our defenders got the Bostons, we killed all the Hurricanes, and the Stukas had minimal interference from what little remained of their defense. All of that success was dependant on us NOT attacking the Bostons, no matter easy it would have been.


Looking for fights comes after T+60

[Zoney]

Devil505  well said sir.

[ImADot]

It's not about getting the fight. It's about following the objective.

Remember frame 3 of February when we found those unescorted Bostons on our fighter sweep? I had half of you guys screaming in my ear for calling you off  before you could make a pass with them. Attacking the buffs wasn't our objective, there were defenders waiting for them. All we needed to do was call out their location - and we did. If we had chased the Bostons, we would have been in no position to deal with the Hurricanes that were our objective. Either they would have attacked our scattered gruppe, or bypassed us altogether and attacked the Stukas we were to protect.

As it turned out, our defenders got the Bostons, we killed all the Hurricanes, and the Stukas had minimal interference from what little remained of their defense. All of that success was dependant on us NOT attacking the Bostons, no matter easy it would have been.


Looking for fights comes after T+60

Which is exactly why I posted what I did on page one...but you took to the time to spell it out very well. 

FSO is not the MA. Many of the attitudes, tactics and behaviors you find in the MA have no place here.

[Zoney]

For 3 Friday's a month, I get to be a WW2 Luftwaffe pilot.  I'm just a pilot, I don't command a squad, I don't lead a wing, I am a lead on a winged pair.  I receive my orders.  I fly the plane I am assigned, I fly the mission I am tasked with, I follow orders.  I do not question anything I am told to do, I follow orders.  Maybe after the mission during the debriefing, I voice my opinion to my Wing Leader or my CO.

Much of my enjoyment is derived because I have few, if any, choices.  Sometimes the mission is a tough one and I truly do not expect to live.  I fly a Luftwaffe aircraft that is dear to my country and our war effort.  Not only must I complete the mission but I must also do my very best to bring my plane and myself home, both valuable assets.

I would never consider deviating from orders, even if I did not agree with them, even if I could get more kills for myself.  None of that matters.  The only thing that matters is following orders.

For 3 Fridays a month, I AM a Luftwaffe pilot.

[captain1ma]

.