The new Rail Gun by the Navy (First one won't load) O_o

[MarineUS]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rail-gun-u-s-navy-top-gun-article-1.1749616

What are the thoughts here on this thing?

I've been reading on it for a couple of days, and I finally found their test video. Looks deadly.

Here is the test video (second one shows a truck going boom )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=h6sAUHwTP4A

[Swoop]

"Velocitas Eradico"

   That's funny.  Almost as funny as "Nil mortifi sin lucre"

[Gman]

Over at the BreakingDefense site, there is a fantastic new article, and a how pile of comments and discussions going on there from guys in the Navy and the industry about this system.

It's great, but requires enormous power to run it.  Also, the barrel gets very, very hot during rapid fire, and they are working on this to increase the rate of fire to maybe  realistic number like 10 rounds per minute, which is great.  25lbs of steel costs 1/100 of what a missile costs, and it's faster, and can be reloaded far faster than a missile tube, so in that respect it's a great advantage.  Also, laser systems are being compared to the rail gun over at BreakingDefense, and the big advantage is lasers are line of sight, so over the horizon shots become impossible at a certain range, while rail guns aren't limited in this respect.  

Anyhow, the first one is going out on a specific test platform, and one of the LCS Frigates has a similarly sized deck, and one thing they are looking at for upgunning the under gunned LCS is putting this weapon on that very spot on their huge deck.  That's if the power can be figured out and put into the small LCS hull, but again, they're working on it.  

Considering how lethal the rail gun can be, so accurate and fast, if they can get it working as well as they hope, it can really change the game for the US Navy in terms of surface to surface warfare, and even air defense vs certain targets.  Same with the laser systems, but the rail gun is closer to reality due to the even more enormous power needed for the laser weapons when they scale them up.  The new DDG1000 ships have the power to run the rail guns right now they think, so say the experts in the comments at the BD site, so the tech is there now for the US Navy to build a ship dedicated to rail and laser weapons in the next 5 years or so.  I hope they can do it, it's great stuff.  Even for land forces, a rail gun system could really change the game in terms of intercepting incoming munitions of all sorts, as well as being used as on offensive system.  

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/04/navys-magnetic-super-gun-to-make-mach-7-shots-at-sea-in-2016-adm-greenert/

Another recent article regarding the Navy is about how they are trying to make fuel out of sea water.  They say in 5 years US Navy ships that aren't nuclear powered may be able to create their own fuel right on board from the surrounding sea water.  Cost is going to be far less than current fuel costs, as well as be unlimited, and release these ships from having to plod along beside a refueling ship at 12 or 15 knots for hours and hours while they top off their tanks constantly.  Think of what this does to the concepts of modern naval warfare, not needed fleet tankers and having to go out of action all the time in order to refuel.  A HUGE, huge deal.  I hope it becomes a reality.  This fuel can be converted to jet fuel, so even the CVN's strike aircraft and helicopters will be able to be fed from the sea.  Amazing.

[Zacherof]

Frigates=aluminum cans 

[Gman]

Some, yes.  Frigates are a critically important ship, hence all the bruhaha over the LCS ships right now in Navy circles.

Horatio Nelson in my opinion - "Was I to die this moment, 'Want of Frigates' would be found stamped on my heart. No words of mine can express what I have, and am suffering for want of them."

Frigs are still very needed, and hopefully either the LCS will be improved and upgunned, but even still, there is a need for a larger ship with more defensive structure and systems for the US Navy to replace the OHP class which is almost gone - a true blue water Frigate, which there are MANY in every other modern navy in the world, and they just keep getting better.

[Zacherof]

Some, yes.  Frigates are a critically important ship, hence all the bruhaha over the LCS ships right now in Navy circles.

Horatio Nelson in my opinion - "Was I to die this moment, 'Want of Frigates' would be found stamped on my heart. No words of mine can express what I have, and am suffering for want of them."

Frigs are still very needed, and hopefully either the LCS will be improved and upgunned, but even still, there is a need for a larger ship with more defensive structure and systems for the US Navy to replace the OHP class which is almost gone - a true blue water Frigate, which there are MANY in every other modern navy in the world, and they just keep getting better.

It was an old ship but one of my buds who cross rated to the bees was on a frigate. Said every time the gun fired the bulkheads would swell round the whole ahip

[Gman]

Probably a OHP class Frigate - they are 30 years old at least now most of them.  Great ships in their day, but needing replacement now, and not with just the LCS class IMO.  The current Frigs in the US Navy have had their SM1 missile system removed, so they have no missile capability, just the torpedo mounts, the helo, the CIWS, and the dinky little gun mounted in the superstructure in the middle of the ship.  

A new Frigate would be great, especially with this rail gun system from the OP in the thread.  A new class of Frigates in the US Navy with the newer AMDR (air missile defense radar) systems out there, with the new SM2/3/6/etc class missiles, in a small VLS system that can have a wide variety of weapons, would be fantastic.  Anti sub missiles like the modern Asrocs, the close range ESSM Sea Sparrow missiles in quad pacs of 4 in each VLS launch tube, SM2/3/6 long range air defense shots, and even Harpoon and other upcoming missiles like the new Tomahawk anti ship missile replacement that's coming.  A cell of about 40 of these, along with a rail gun, new laser weapon system, a good 76mm gun, along with a few 25mm mounts, can easily be put on a modern 4000 to 7000 ton class Frigate.  The hard part is generating the electric power to run the AMDR, Rail gun, and laser, but they are working on this tech rapidly enough that they could put these systems on a modern Frigate.   I hope the US Navy will be able to build something along these lines soon.  

Something like this may be slower than the LCS, but it'll have a much stronger and more survivable hull, have far more capability and firepower, and more sailors to do the work, as the recent first deployment of the LCS showed that even with the crew increase of 20% the Navy recently did, it still isn't enough, and imagine if there was a damage control drill where every man counts - not good.  So, a blue water proper Frigate is still needed, as the LCS just can't do that mission, and doesn't have the firepower or survivability to accomplish much.  For what it is, a clse to shore small ship threat fighting machine, it'll suffice, being so fast, and once they get the guns working better.  But out to sea in blue water, I think it's been established that the LCS just won't cut it vs modern warships and subs, outside of its littoral environment.  

[HL117]

Good for killing Deceptacons 

 

[Rich46yo]

Unless something has changed there are LCS ships planned with modules for Aegis radar and an advanced over the horizon strike missile. I also think a long range version of Hellfire is going to be installed on them.

There isnt going to be any new frigates. The LCS is it so it had better work.

[moot]

Polywell

[Gman]

Defense Daily just put up an article about new VLS tubes being installed into some of the following LCS Frigs being built.  They are also working on a plug in "module" system with VLS capability for the ships already in service and currently under construction.  This is a major deal - it seems people are listening to the people at sea driving these ships - they are under gunned, and this new VLS system is going to be a big jump up the rung in shootout capability.  They are using a version of the milimeter radar guided Hellfire missile, and are being given access to a stockpile of 10 thousand missiles already built for the Army.  The radar seeker is great, and can use lock on after launch and other stuff for taking out targets like medium and small size ships.  It has a range of close to 8 miles at sea, and they'll be able to squeeze a lot of them into the VLS tubes, like the quad pack ESSM missiles in single tubes now, and the Hellfire is even smaller and lighter than the ESSM.

Great news for the LCS, and like Rich said, there isn't going to be a new Frigate, at least not for a while, no matter how much it is needed due to there being no funding for it.  He's 100 percent right - the LCS NEEDS to work, and to work it needs weapons that work.  This is great news IMO.

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/04/09/navy-adds-hellfire-missiles-to-lcs/

They also started testing the new "smart rocket" that fits into current 19 round rocket pods used by US helicopters on the new US Navy helos.  This is also a good shot in the arm for these helicopters at sea on ships like the LCS and others.  It gives them a lot more firepower and capability.  

http://defensetech.org/2014/04/09/navy-tests-smart-helicopter-rocket-launchers/#more-22676

Back to the LCS, Rich46yo, do you have any intel/links on that Aegis stuff for the LCS?  I think that while the Hellfire is great for small boats, it's limited in range, and if they enemy is withing 8 clicks, that's getting close to CQB range at sea, and the LCS absolutely needs a longer range, over the horizon as you said, weapons system.  I think all the wanking/wailing about the LCS would go away if it was given a lot more armament and sensors, and it's not THAT small of a ship, I've got a friend who saw one up close recently, it is pretty large and has a large sail area.  The US Navy should be able to fit something longer range, like the Harpoon, or some other missile system, on the LCS, sooner as opposed to later considering the threats out there right now.  It's a fast ship, and should everything work as it is supposed to, could be very capable, but it needs more offensive, and even defensive (ESSM etc) missile systems.  All that stuff is off the shelf tech, currently in service, I don't see the problem since the LCS is supposed to be "modular" and be able to have anything plugged into these spots.  So where are the offensive and defensive missile modules for pete's sake?


edit - I found one good article and read it quickly regarding the Aegis system and the LCS.  Like the Admiral said in this article, what good is a VLS system without an Aegis radar to find/target/guide the weapons?  Lockheed Martin has drawn up specs to put a small Aegis radar on the LCS.  This article talks to the point I made in the first post about needing a larger more powerful frigate, that or really, really upgunning the current LCS since that's all there is funding for right now.  Good article IMO.

http://news.usni.org/2014/02/24/pentagon-caps-lcs-32-hulls-hagel-directs-navy-evaluate-capable-lethal-frigate-designs

I have some faith in the Navy, as the current Virginia Class Sub program is a great example of how things CAN be done.  It's under budget, ahead of schedule, and the subs coming off the line are incredibly capable, giving the US Navy probably its best weapons next to the carriers, and arguably even the equal of them in terms of sea control and offensive capability vs other naval threats.  I wish the team running the Virginia program would be put in charge of the LCS program.  Wishful thinking I guess.

[Rich46yo]

I dont have any links but I do remember one of the LCS designs is having Aegis planned for it. I think Freedom class.

Nor do I remember if the USN is going to adopt the module since we already have so many Aegis platforms. It might be for export.

Spending money on an Aegis module for an LCS already operating in a networked Battle Group sounds like kind of a waste of money. But I did read somewheres the module is being planned.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I wonder what kind of collateral damage that round does. From the videos it seems like it's mostly just punching neat holes. It would be like ticking holes in your enemy with a sowing needle compared to a real 18" artillery roun.

Does anyone have info if people would have survived in those 3 rooms of the video for example? Is the blast effect invisible?

[Bodhi]

GMan, until they figure out how to run aircraft, armor, and support equipment of sea water, the fleet will still be tied to tankers, albeit not at the same level as ship propulsion consumption.

[Gman]

I know the article says the process can be used for both bunker fuel for the ships, and for aviation fuel for fighters, helo's, and support aircraft.  So far as fueling the support equipment, I'm not sure what that runs on, diesel I would assume, so it should work for that as well.

If they can ever make this work, the only support vessels a US fleet would need would be provisions, ammunition, and stuff like that.  The largest and most bulky, not to mention probably expensive stuff, being fuel for the ships and aircraft, would almost be a renewable resource thanks to this whole sea water deal.  I don't pretend to know the ins and outs and complexity of the process, but in its base form the idea sounds great.