Radical Idea About HOing

[Tank-Ace]

So as a cartoon pilot who clearly values skill do you disagree that it's your responsibility to avoid the HO?

I think everyone should be able to avoid the HO, and that they cannot complain about being shot down by a HO. In that sense, I feel it is your responsibility to avoid the HO, yes. But I also feel that its something they shouldn't have to do.


I rarely complain about being shot down by a HO because 1) I rarely accept HO's, and 2) I'm usually packing 30mm's, so I very rarely lose a HO.

What I complain about is the HO in general, chronic HO'ers (won't name name's), and those that HO and run.

About your losing angles comment, if you set up your merge correctly so you are lead turning while they are still busy trying for the shot then you will gain angles instead. I'm sure a number of people here posting could show you that if you wished.

If every merge were exactly how I would have it in an ideal world, I'd have a much easier time of it. Unfortunately the reality of things are that not every merge will be to your liking, and you won't have the chance to affect changes to that end.

While I understand what you're saying, the reality is that in some cases the HO can be used to force someone to maneuver and lose angles.

[mechanic]

I certainly do believe it, and if you can't admit it then you have your head buried in the sand.
  

I think if you believe that of me then it only proves your ignorance to who I am and how I fly this game.

What I think is naïve about your methods is that you have never learned that ranting and raving about your dislikes does little to nothing to change the environment you are complaining about.

There are many positive ways you could chose to influence the community to become more to your liking and yet you are still stuck on the most basic of all attitudes in attempting to do so. However, I respect your right to chose how you react to a problem and have long since lost interest in trying to educate you to a higher level of influencing your surroundings.

[Debrody]

Getting picked is another issue - but that boils down to being your own fault too!

If im doing circles in the sector 1,1, at 40k alt, i wont be getting picked.
Thats a big truth.

[PJ_Godzilla]

\Now bear with me here. I'm suggesting we include and embrace the HO as part of acceptable fighting.

+1. I've never understood the griping. I came in here thinking it was legit based on accounts I'd read of pilots who were afraid to break from a HO because turning gives the enemy a bigger target. There are real-life cases of pilots ending up in each other's cockpits as a result of the HO.

That said, I can usually tell when someone's going to and when they're going to pull down for speed and a quick reversal.

People need to grow up. It's just a game. Any chance at a quick kill can and will be exploited.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Anyone who tries to Ho my Yak9T will get a big turnip in the face and if you try a head on and dive at the last minute I will do the same

Yat9T is a Typhoon that turns

Tempest is poo and is for girls

I'm starting to appreciate your commentary, Zack. Tempest is for girls. At the same time, Deb makes a point I find uncannily true - the one about getting sprayed regardless by the drag queen in the Temp. I suicide-vulched a notorious Temp-picker the other weekend. When I saw that thing on the runway, I said, screw it, I'm taking that one with me. As luck would have it, I was in a P-39Q (a ride I'm not usually in). Of course, he ate the plus size tater before his ack took my wings.

[FLS]

I HO I HO
text buffer tells me so
cause high aspect
gets no respect
I HO I HO

I HO I HO
my ACM must blow
in your face
is pure disgrace
I HO I HO

It's funny when players ignore the fact that no HO's make the fight easier for experienced players and harder for noobs. 

[Wiley]

If every merge were exactly how I would have it in an ideal world, I'd have a much easier time of it. Unfortunately the reality of things are that not every merge will be to your liking, and you won't have the chance to affect changes to that end.

...and that is part of the game.  Not every fight starts on terms that are to your liking, sometimes the guy will have alt, sometimes he will be faster than you.  Sometimes he might even be in a better plane.

It's part of the game to do what you can with the situation you're given.  The arbitrary requirement for people to be allowed to fly through their opponent's gunsight or  ensues is just flat out silly.

Wiley.

[Hoplite]

It's funny when players ignore the fact that no HO's make the fight easier for experienced players and harder for noobs. 

Yep.  And it's almost always experienced players who get ticked off when they do it....

[PJ_Godzilla]

Yep.  And it's almost always experienced players who get ticked off when they do it....

Do we know that? It seems like lots of people here, many of whom are experienced, have accepted the HO as a fact of life.

[Bear76]

Do we know that? It seems like lots of people here, many of whom are experienced, have accepted the HO as a fact of life.

If we accepted the HO, why would people get ticked off? It's more "expecting" you will probably get Ho'd.

[PJ_Godzilla]

If we accepted the HO, why would people get ticked off? It's more "expecting" you will probably get Ho'd.

Restating - is it this contingent here - that tends toward experience - that is actually aggrieved? Or, is it some contingent out there on 200?

[Hoplite]

Restating - is it this contingent here - that tends toward experience - that is actually aggrieved? Or, is it some contingent out there on 200?

My hunch is both, but the more I think about it the more it may depend on what player "camp" you lean towards rather than experience.  The furballers appear to hate HOs or any front quarter shot and avoid employing it.  The BnZ / alt crowd appears to be somewhat more accepting of at least using front quarter shots as a weapon.  I'm somewhat in the middle between the two camps but will not normally take pure zero degree HO shots.   I will use off nose shots to end a fight quickly if the opportunity presents itself and the tactical situation requires it.  I beleive others who sit between the pure furballers and BnZers are similarly inclined, but also recognize that these are all generalizations.

I personally don't get ticked off about HOs much anymore because I always go into a fight expecting someone to come in spraying fire from a thousand out at my face.  It's really not a big deal if you anticipate it and take steps to avoid and counter.  Personally I'd estimate less than 10%-15% of HO attempts land any rounds and it's even more rare I actually get shot down from one*. 


* Actually, it would be better to say that 0% of HOs attempts currently connect as haven't been playing AH for several weeks.

[fracca]

What I would take from this thread, (and i'm probably wrong), would be that the HO is an exploit that creates almost equality between two pilots, that is if both accept the HO initiation. In other words, difference in skill level becomes almost a moot point for those 2 seconds under 1k. This is a wonderful and almost unrefusable incentive to those players that feel that they are possibly (or probably) going to be in a fight against a superior opponent. If you think you're going to lose this engagement, (possibly because you lose most of your other engagements), that 2 seconds of almost equality with your opponent is just too alluring. It may just be your only chance of winning this encounter, or at the very least taking him with you.

My point I guess, would be that the HO is only to your advantage if your opponent is better than you, which means by default it is the responsability of the superior pilot to not allow the other to 'drag him down' to where his/her skills no longer matter.

[PJ_Godzilla]

What I would take from this thread, (and i'm probably wrong), would be that the HO is an exploit that creates almost equality between two pilots, that is if both accept the HO initiation. In other words, difference in skill level becomes almost a moot point for those 2 seconds under 1k. This is a wonderful and almost unrefusable incentive to those players that feel that they are possibly (or probably) going to be in a fight against a superior opponent. If you think you're going to lose this engagement, (possibly because you lose most of your other engagements), that 2 seconds of almost equality with your opponent is just too alluring. It may just be your only chance of winning this encounter, or at the very least taking him with you.

My point I guess, would be that the HO is only to your advantage if your opponent is better than you, which means by default it is the responsability of the superior pilot to not allow the other to 'drag him down' to where his/her skills no longer matter.

This is sound reasoning: the burden of skill. If you don't like the HO, learn to defang it. For my own part, if the approaching pilot defers, I try to as well, because it usually means I'm about to learn something, if at the expense of my own ace. The thing is, most of the good pilots I see - eg, Latrobe, who killed me the other week - handle the merge notably different than, I don't know, Sycodon or somebody.

The funny thing about Latrobe: He was in a Pony, I in a G-6. I kept jockeying at a distance to try to get some alt on him so I could do the old dive-shoot-pull up-roll-reverse-dive-again   and I could tell, even at near max icon range, he wasn't having any of it. Given his speed advantage, by the time I got the fight, I knew I was more or less screwed.               

[Aspen]

Over the years I've read countless threads about running and even participated in a few. There's hardly been a single session I've flown when someone or other isn't typing 'nice run' or 'you running b**tard' etc. None of these threads and not one of these complaints has ever put and end to running (note: we can't say it doesn't reduce it because the cultural pressure is continuous).

In Aces High it's almost become synomomous with swearing, it's not acceptable but there's an awful lot of it going about. I've seen more bitter complaints and more discord amongst players over the running than any other aspect of gameplay, so a weird thought occured to me: what if we as a community stopped complaining about the running and accepted it instead.

Now bear with me here. I'm suggesting we include and embrace the running as part of acceptable fighting. I mean a run from any fight. No discussion of both or only one party staying to fight, no debate over altitude and cowardess, simply give your opponent a chance to run, and he runs.

So now the expectation changes, instead of expecting NOT to have guys run out of the anticipation of sporting behaviour we expect them TO run every time. Those that have been objecting to running on the grounds it is unskillful now have the responsibility to learn how to accept it and can't complain if they get ran away from, or they start flying faster planes. Thus this hole in whats acceptable to those who want people to stay engaged, becomes filled.

Those that run presently do not gain anything nor lose anything save the end of negative comments (which they apparently don't care about anyway).

For those that dislike getting ran away from, the burden of responsibility shifts onto temselves instead of expected behaviour from another player which I think we can all agree is only a recipe for dissapointment, annoyance and discord. In AH culture, running is one circumstance in a fight where people get mad that the other guy decided to leave. This is illogical and unrealistic in the context of this combative virtual environment.

Employing the same 'persuasion by negative comments' approach which is demonstrably not working over and over year in, year out is the definition of futility. How about a paradigm shift instead?

   Just seeing how it read with inserting some other popular but unpopular behavior.