30mm

[Someguy63]

I've had excessive amounts of suckage and epic fails with this lately. 
Either I seem to add too much lead or too little, or I can't tell at all because the tracers from that round are hidden in the mix of the MG's.

That little glowing circle , pretty ornament thingy is not used by me, even if the little markers on the sides and top/bottom are supposed to help.

First of all, for the people who are great shots with it, what convergence do you have it set? I have yet to find a home.

 

[BaldEagl]

First of all, for the people who are great shots with it, what convergence do you have it set?

650 yards but I'm an anomoly.

[LCADolby]

set it to 350 and never fire MGs at the same time as the 30mm

[Someguy63]

set it to 350 and never fire MGs at the same time as the 30mm

I thought so, just switched it from 350 to 375. However, with the lack of a joystick, I have to stick to firing both since I use my right hand on the mouse, and left on keyboard controls. And since a lot of shots require rudder, my left hand is usually occupied, and moving a finger to the 'B' key would be difficult to not mess myself up(too late for the shot) Maybe the possible excessive amount of lead I use would change to some degree if I change convergence for MG's from 650 to 350?

[Lucifer]

The Mk108 was historicaly effective at 250m max : over 250m, the balistic becomes very unstable, like ingame.

By setting the convergence at 275 yards -as i do-, and the MGs at 300 yards, i manage to land 80%+ ammo on a target.

You should try these convergences and experiment them in training arena : set different buttons for the MK108/MGs
and fire the 30mm only first : you'll be able to confirm its specific balistic, then the MGs one.

After a few kills in training arena, set a button for both Mk108/MGs and do some more kills in it : modify the MGs convergence untill it fits you :
this should give you the perfect convergence that reflects your way of attacking an enemy plane !

 

[Someguy63]

The Mk108 was historicaly effective at 250m max : over 250m, the balistic becomes very unstable, like ingame.

By setting the convergence at 275 yards -as i do-, and the MGs at 300 yards, i manage to land 80%+ ammo on a target.

You should try these convergences and experiment them in training arena : set different buttons for the MK108/MGs
and fire the 30mm only first : you'll be able to confirm its specific balistic, then the MGs one.

After a few kills in training arena, set a button for both Mk108/MGs and do some more kills in it : modify the MGs convergence untill it fits you :
this should give you the perfect convergence that reflects your way of attacking an enemy plane !

 

Yeah, this time I'll definitely practice using different settings before heading to the MA and realizing it's utter poo

But, is there anyway possible, i can set secondary weapon so that it can be fired by pressing the scroll button on top of a mouse?

 

[ImADot]

But, is there anyway possible, i can set secondary weapon so that it can be fired by pressing the scroll button on top of a mouse?

If you go into the map controllers section of the clipboard, you can double-click any button, and if it's detected properly as a button, the assignment menu should pop up. If so, you should be able to program the scroll wheel button for whatever you want.

[Someguy63]

If you go into the map controllers section of the clipboard, you can double-click any button, and if it's detected properly as a button, the assignment menu should pop up. If so, you should be able to program the scroll wheel button for whatever you want.

I'll try it later today, thanks!
 

[deadstikmac]

My humble thoughts... After flying the k4 for a while now....

When I am in level flight and in a relaxed get state. My head in the normal position and my sight is dead center of the sight retinal if I shoot my 30 mill the round will be at the top of the planes nose at or around 300-400. The very bottom of the "glass" where the sight is displayed upon. And where the very top of the nose of the aircraft meet. Is about how much drop is involved with a level relaxed G state shot.


When I am lining up a shot I use the top of the nose as a guide for lining up shots on my bandits.  If they are just in the very bottom of the glass square which displays my sight AT or AROUND 300-400 indicated yards away.


As a visual guide I stack 2 air planes on top of each other and shoot at the third one on the bottom.


Edit. Track IR is great because I can raise my head and see the shot better.

[Skuzzy]

You can also go offline and use the .target command to set a giant target up at different ranges to see the impact of convergence and distance.

[Someguy63]

My humble thoughts... After flying the k4 for a while now....

When I am in level flight and in a relaxed get state. My head in the normal position and my sight is dead center of the sight retinal if I shoot my 30 mill the round will be at the top of the planes nose at or around 300-400. The very bottom of the "glass" where the sight is displayed upon. And where the very top of the nose of the aircraft meet. Is about how much drop is involved with a level relaxed G state shot.


When I am lining up a shot I use the top of the nose as a guide for lining up shots on my bandits.  If they are just in the very bottom of the glass square which displays my sight AT or AROUND 300-400 indicated yards away.


As a visual guide I stack 2 air planes on top of each other and shoot at the third one on the bottom.


Edit. Track IR is great because I can raise my head and see the shot better.

You can also go offline and use the .target command to set a giant target up at different ranges to see the impact of convergence and distance.

Nice, both of these are useful!
Setting convergence to 350.
Get the scroll button to work for secondary weapons.
Remember Deadstik's and Lucifer's method while practicing.
Go kick butt.

 

[Someguy63]

If you go into the map controllers section of the clipboard, you can double-click any button, and if it's detected properly as a button, the assignment menu should pop up. If so, you should be able to program the scroll wheel button for whatever you want.

Nailed it, works like a charm!

[bustr]

I think the more experienced muppets ACM their opponents into a low E or stalled condition. Then shoot them from close range while not having to account for much lead allowance by a moving target.

Very few of you talk about the problems with MK108 dispersion and how it's modeled randomly in the game. Hitech is a tad generous with the dispersion. Still if you let fly 3 rounds, maybe one fly's on target maybe not. The reason for being as close as possible and why you hear complaints about not hitting from dead 6 chase shots very easily.

MK108 500m\sec Dispersion at range.

Real Life (m) -------------- Game (yd)
100m dis 3.2m(10.5ft)----109yd dis 4ft
200m dis 4.3m(14ft)------218yd dis 9.8ft
300m dis 6.7m(22ft)------328yd dis 14.7ft
400m dis 9.4m(31ft)------437yd dis 23.6ft
500m dis 12.2m(40ft).----547yd dis 33ft
600m dis 15.2m(50ft).----656yd dis 39ft

By the way, after finding a drop off at the end of a runway to level a K4 visa the artfHorz with the convergence set to 150. Then adjusting the nose below level to allow for the cannon barrel being tilted up through the engine block instead of the historic mounted dead zero inline with the engine. The drops I recorded at all of the above ranges required about a 519-520m\sec round. This round never existed in WW2 for the MK108 but, acts somewhat like a prototype for the MG213C.

The Mauser MG213C 30mm revolver cannon would have fired a MK108 round in the 520m-530m\sec range taking advantage of the MK108 ammo in production without having to retool. It never made it into the war but, became the foundation for our modern ADEN revolver cannon systems.

All MK108 rounds were set at 500m\sec, from testing of the propellant temperature tolerances and gun jamming from -60c to +80c. A range was found to which 500m\sec was the norm while at -60c, 487m\sec could still cycle the receiver, and at +80c 511m\sec didn't cause jams. The ammo bin did not sit in a sauna of 176f air to try and achieve 511m\sec let alone 519-520. The ammo was affected by the outside air temp at alt. The reason for testing at -60c to +80c was to ensure the gun would cycle while covering the possible conditions the ammo might be exposed to.

This cannon was intended for shooting slow level flying bombers, not fighters during G induced ACM maneuvering. By late 44 and 45, Germany was more worried about shooting down bombers than fighters. Armament was a reflection of this concern. The K4 like the Ta152 were high speed bomber interceptors. The G6/U4 and G14/U4 were bomber interceptor packages.

[hitech]

In AH the mv on the Mk 108 set at 1650 FPS I.E. 502.92  MPS.
 
HiTech

[DmonSlyr]

I think the more experienced muppets ACM their opponents into a low E or stalled condition. Then shoot them from close range while not having to account for much lead allowance by a moving target.

Very few of you talk about the problems with MK108 dispersion and how it's modeled randomly in the game. Hitech is a tad generous with the dispersion. Still if you let fly 3 rounds, maybe one fly's on target maybe not. The reason for being as close as possible and why you hear complaints about not hitting from dead 6 chase shots very easily.

MK108 500m\sec Dispersion at range.

Real Life (m) -------------- Game (yd)
100m dis 3.2m(10.5ft)----109yd dis 4ft
200m dis 4.3m(14ft)------218yd dis 9.8ft
300m dis 6.7m(22ft)------328yd dis 14.7ft
400m dis 9.4m(31ft)------437yd dis 23.6ft
500m dis 12.2m(40ft).----547yd dis 33ft
600m dis 15.2m(50ft).----656yd dis 39ft

By the way, after finding a drop off at the end of a runway to level a K4 visa the artfHorz with the convergence set to 150. Then adjusting the nose below level to allow for the cannon barrel being tilted up through the engine block instead of the historic mounted dead zero inline with the engine. The drops I recorded at all of the above ranges required about a 519-520m\sec round. This round never existed in WW2 for the MK108 but, acts somewhat like a prototype for the MG213C.

The Mauser MG213C 30mm revolver cannon would have fired a MK108 round in the 520m-530m\sec range taking advantage of the MK108 ammo in production without having to retool. It never made it into the war but, became the foundation for our modern ADEN revolver cannon systems.

All MK108 rounds were set at 500m\sec, from testing of the propellant temperature tolerances and gun jamming from -60c to +80c. A range was found to which 500m\sec was the norm while at -60c, 487m\sec could still cycle the receiver, and at +80c 511m\sec didn't cause jams. The ammo bin did not sit in a sauna of 176f air to try and achieve 511m\sec let alone 519-520. The ammo was affected by the outside air temp at alt. The reason for testing at -60c to +80c was to ensure the gun would cycle while covering the possible conditions the ammo might be exposed to.

This cannon was intended for shooting slow level flying bombers, not fighters during G induced ACM maneuvering. By late 44 and 45, Germany was more worried about shooting down bombers than fighters. Armament was a reflection of this concern. The K4 like the Ta152 were high speed bomber interceptors. The G6/U4 and G14/U4 were bomber interceptor packages.

I set my convergence at 400. I've tried 350 but the bullets drop a lil too early. 400 is the right amount of push to keep the bullet more flat In the air. Really and truely the key to being a good shot with the 30mm is to get good angles on your opponent. In other words, use throttle and rudder to get the nose to consistanlty be out in front of your opponent (especially when you are diving on someone).  You really have to put your nose where they are gonna fly and time the shot as they pass. Also as bustr said, I like flying in the defensive position, which is great for the 109s and 30mm. Get them to overshoot, lag roll them till they are slow on E and it makes it easy to get a nice shot on them as they float slowly past you.  Use quick 2 second burst as well. It only takes one to ki them so tap the trigger instead of holding it down.