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Author Topic: F-35  (Read 16873 times)

Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2014, 10:12:21 PM »
Quote from: Changeup on May 08, 2014, 10:07:49 PM
Ok, I'll bite.  How do you know more than an active wing crew chief?

Crew Chiefs don't know much about airplanes other than how to fix them, as a rule.   I work with them every day.  I have friends on the inside of this program who know everything that is going on, too.   It was never meant to be an F-22.


Oh, and I can do basic math.    The numbers for the JSF PROVE it is not up to the task.  If it were then physics has been re-written.

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”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2014, 10:14:13 PM »
Quote from: Changeup on May 08, 2014, 10:10:38 PM
Sources please...

Do your own research like I did.  Not my job to do it for you.

Bill Sweetman, CDR Salamander, and Eric Palmer have aggregated a lot of material.  Start there.
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”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2014, 10:16:01 PM »
Quote from: BnZs on May 08, 2014, 09:21:07 PM
A wing loading of 107 pounds per square foot seems a little high.


It is actually worse than that.  They count the fuselage as wing area even though it generates nothing.  

And the first time this thing gets hit by AAA or small arms it is gonna' catch fire like a Zeke.  


It also will never fly with a large number of weapons that even the Rhino II can carry.   That engine is gonna' light up on IR like a Christmas tree set aflame.  Stealth.  Lol.
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”KILLER V”
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Offline Changeup

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Re: F-35
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2014, 10:16:18 PM »
Quote from: Vraciu on May 08, 2014, 10:12:21 PM
Crew Chiefs don't know much about airplanes other than how to fix them, as a rule.   I work with them every day.  I have friends on the inside of this program who know everything that is going on, too.   It was never meant to be an F-22.


Oh, and I can do basic math.    The numbers for the JSF PROVE it is not up to the task.  If it were then physics has been re-written.



Your sources are your friends who work in the F35 program who have told you the operational limitations of the next gen fighter aircraft?  A program that probably has 1500 secret/top secret / crypto compartments?

Ok I believe you
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Offline Butcher

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Re: F-35
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2014, 10:16:56 PM »
Quote from: Vraciu on May 08, 2014, 10:09:09 PM

The Flanker will extend away from the puny AMRAAM shot and then run the JSF down and kill it.


My only problem with this, from tests it showed the JSF was within 10 miles before it even was detected, a normal amraam would be fired at 15 miles or closer, a flanker with full afters on will not run away.

Flankers only real threat is fact it can fire 25+ miles away, but on a target it cannot see won't make a difference.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2014, 10:17:58 PM »
Quote from: Changeup on May 08, 2014, 10:16:18 PM
Your sources are your friends who work in the F35 program who have told you the operational limitations of the next gen fighter aircraft?  A program that probably has 1500 secret/top secret / crypto compartments?

Ok I believe you


Didn't say that. 


Don't care what you believe regardless.
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Offline Changeup

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Re: F-35
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2014, 10:18:25 PM »
Quote from: Vraciu on May 08, 2014, 10:14:13 PM
Do your own research like I did.  Not my job to do it for you.

Bill Sweetman, CDR Salamander, and Eric Palmer have aggregated a lot of material.  Start there.

I don't need to do any.   I don't really care.  I just wanted to see if you had access to anything other than friends, Google and naysayer propaganda.
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Offline Changeup

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Re: F-35
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2014, 10:19:42 PM »
Quote from: Vraciu on May 08, 2014, 10:12:21 PM
I have friends on the inside of this program who know everything that is going on, too.  

Actually that is what you said.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2014, 10:20:40 PM »
Quote from: Butcher on May 08, 2014, 10:16:56 PM
My only problem with this, from tests it showed the JSF was within 10 miles before it even was detected, a normal amraam would be fired at 15 miles or closer, a flanker with full afters on will not run away.

Flankers only real threat is fact it can fire 25+ miles away, but on a target it cannot see won't make a difference.


What tests?

You mean the LM PowerPoint slide?

The airplane is only forward quarter stealth in one radar band.   It is easily seen from all other angles, generates lots of heat and persistent vapor trails, and can't fly high enough to hit a Flanker at 15 miles.

PK for AMRAAM is in the toilet.

The Flanker and PAK-FA will eat it for breakfast.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2014, 10:21:55 PM »
Quote from: Changeup on May 08, 2014, 10:19:42 PM
Actually that is what you said.

Yes I said that, not what you falsely paraphrased.
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”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2014, 10:22:47 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 01:22:47 PM by Skuzzy »
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”KILLER V”
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Offline Butcher

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Re: F-35
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2014, 10:25:56 PM »
Quote from: Vraciu on May 08, 2014, 10:20:40 PM

What tests?

You mean the LM PowerPoint slide?

The airplane is only forward quarter stealth in one radar band.   It is easily seen from all other angles, generates lots of heat and persistent vapor trails, and can't fly high enough to hit a Flanker at 15 miles.


I have no clue about the powerpoint or its stealth properties, honestly I rarely read into anything anymore - I just happened to read the article from Janes Defense weekly which gave some promising info from tests done on it. Thats why I inquired about its landing capabilities on carriers - last time it was published
it said the Aircraft was unable to land on the carriers and the entire bellybutton end would have to be redone in order for it to work, something about it being to close to the landing gears.

It did mention its stealth capabilities, but I don't recall what was said.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2014, 10:33:55 PM »
Quote from: Butcher on May 08, 2014, 10:25:56 PM
I have no clue about the powerpoint or its stealth properties, honestly I rarely read into anything anymore - I just happened to read the article from Janes Defense weekly which gave some promising info from tests done on it. Thats why I inquired about its landing capabilities on carriers - last time it was published
it said the Aircraft was unable to land on the carriers and the entire bellybutton end would have to be redone in order for it to work, something about it being to close to the landing gears.

It did mention its stealth capabilities, but I don't recall what was said.

Well, LM has been pushing this Fifth Generation meme for awhile.  It is not accurate.

Also, side beam detection of the JSF is easy in every band.    It was designed  to defeat short ranged, mobile SAM radars.   When they increased the size of the weapons bay they screwed up the lower quarter stealth of the airplane.   Long range detection from the sides and rear in L-, S-, and X-Band (among others) is quite easy.

X- and S-Band radars are defeatable only about 14 degrees either side of the nose.

It has poor persistence, can't climb very high, has horrible kinematics, and its payload is anemic. 

It just isn't a good airplane.  At all.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 10:44:02 PM by Vraciu »
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”KILLER V”
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Offline Zoney

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Re: F-35
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2014, 10:48:28 PM »
Quote from: Gman on May 08, 2014, 06:29:59 PM
Are you going to go and see it?  If I was in your shoes and nearby, I would want to see it fly, and most of all hear what it sounds like with that single engine.

I didn't know you were from AZ, most of my family comes from Scottsdale, and the ones that didn't move up to Canada right around the time I was born moved up into Happy Jack. 

They fly OVER my house every day.  I may go and sit at the end of the runway as they take off too.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2014, 10:49:04 PM »
Quote from: Zoney on May 08, 2014, 10:48:28 PM
They fly OVER my house every day.  I may go and sit at the end of the runway as they take off too.


Well, take some pictures for us, Zoner.
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”KILLER V”
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