Author Topic: F-35  (Read 17005 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: F-35
« Reply #255 on: May 13, 2014, 12:11:37 PM »
It should be contracted to the highest bidder?
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: F-35
« Reply #256 on: May 13, 2014, 12:14:51 PM »

Integrated with what?  Fewer than 100 combat coded F-22s?   F-16s that are questionably survivable?  F-15s that are falling apart?

The JSF won't even have the F-16s performance.   It will be closer to the Super Hornet, which happens to have greater capability in terms of weapons and decoys.  The SH isn't survivable either.

Our air power roadmap is a giant fail.

Integrated with what? Is that your question? Ok let me explain...

The battle is taking place in a giant virtual map of the sky in a giant defense department computer. When a Russian jet goes wheels up, it's speed alt, formation heading etc, are tracked by dozens of satelites, radars, etc, all feeding data into the virtual map. Planes are vectored to bandits and are set up in firing positions, download coordinated to fire upon, all before the bandit is even within the planes sensor range. the F-35, as with the F-22, and probably hundreds of missile carrying stealth drones will be firing at, and killing targets they never made contact with. The fired missile will head to a location and go active to find the bandit and kill it, with little to know warning for the bandit. It may even be possible to get updated information on the way to the target.

It's very good odds that a Flanker will never even see an American plane in combat before it is despatched, let alone kill one.

The performance of the plane is the last line of defense for modern combat aircraft, not the first.  I do not believe the Russians have demonstrated anything like that kind of capability in their fighter aircraft or air defense systems in general. In their long history of those planes fighting American hardware, their equipment, from planes, to radar networks, have been prey hundreds of times more often than they have been predators.

It would be one thing to say the new PAK, and some new Russian Air comand system are now INTERGATED and have all that capability, but it's not very credible to say the Su-27 possesses powers it hasn't been able to demonstrate in 30 years of service.  :salute

Stealth is the science and capability NOT to be tracked from wheel up to combat engagement. The Su-27 has little to no stealth capability, so it is a flying target.  :salute
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 01:53:57 PM by Vinkman »
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Offline Karnak

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Re: F-35
« Reply #257 on: May 13, 2014, 12:20:59 PM »
Integrated with what? Is that your question? Ok let me explain...

The battle is taking place in a giant virtual map of the sky in a giant defense department computer. When a Russian jet goes wheels up, it's speed alt, formation heading etc, are tracked by dozens of satelites, radars, etc, all feeding data into the virtual map. Planes are vectored to bandits and are set up in firing positions and download coordinated to fire upon before the bandit is even the planes sensor range. the F-35, as with the F-22, and probably hundreds of missile carrying stealth drones will be firing at, and killing targets they never made contact with. the fired missile will head to a location and go active to find the bandit and kill it, with little to know warning for the bandit. It may even be possible to get updated information on the way to the target.

It's very good odds that a flanker will never even see an American plane in combat, let alone kill one.

The performance of the plane is the last line of defense for modern combat aircraft, not the first.  I do not believe the Russians have demonstrated anything like that kind of capability in their fighter aircraft or air defense systems in general. In their long history of those planes fighting American hardware, their equipment, from planes, to radar networks, have been prey hundreds of times more often than they have been predators.

It would be one thing to say the new PAK has all that capability, but it's not very credible to say the Su-27 possesses powers it hasn't been able to demonstrate in 30 years of service.  :salute
If such a system is actually active and reliable then the justification on the price tags of the F-22 and F-35 are even harder to justify.  We'd be better served by cheap, plentiful platforms each with large payloads.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #258 on: May 13, 2014, 12:35:49 PM »
If such a system is actually active and reliable then the justification on the price tags of the F-22 and F-35 are even harder to justify.  We'd be better served by cheap, plentiful platforms each with large payloads.

Exactly.  Along with range and performance.

A less stealthy/non-stealthy F-22 is the way to go.  Or a SM-TV F-15 platform.

All this gee whiz technology has been promising to save us for decades.  It never pans out quite as expected.   It will definitely not work when we have an Air Force of fewer than 100 F-22s and a gaggle of mistake jets with helmet jitter and overheated radar slugging it out at low altitude with no fuel, no gun, and only four missiles with a low PK.

Sounds like a plan for success to me.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 12:37:49 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: F-35
« Reply #259 on: May 13, 2014, 01:55:22 PM »
If such a system is actually active and reliable then the justification on the price tags of the F-22 and F-35 are even harder to justify.  We'd be better served by cheap, plentiful platforms each with large payloads.

They are active for us. Not the Enemy.

Stealth technology for us means the enemy has to fly out there and see us visually. He'll be dead before that, because he has none.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 02:03:57 PM by Vinkman »
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: F-35
« Reply #260 on: May 13, 2014, 01:56:08 PM »
Exactly.  Along with range and performance.

A less stealthy/non-stealthy F-22 is the way to go.  Or a SM-TV F-15 platform.

All this gee whiz technology has been promising to save us for decades.  It never pans out quite as expected.   It will definitely not work when we have an Air Force of fewer than 100 F-22s and a gaggle of mistake jets with helmet jitter and overheated radar slugging it out at low altitude with no fuel, no gun, and only four missiles with a low PK.

Sounds like a plan for success to me.

It exactly pans out as expected. What gulf/Iraq war were you watching?  :rofl
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Offline ACE

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Re: F-35
« Reply #261 on: May 13, 2014, 02:33:25 PM »
It should be contracted to the highest bidder?
I didn't say that. When you bid low you have to buy cheaper parts (as the bidder). It allows for maximum profit.
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Offline Ardy123

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Re: F-35
« Reply #262 on: May 13, 2014, 03:18:57 PM »
Or the US should replace the F-35 with samurai swords... :uhoh

Screw external drop tanks, mount samurai swords on the wings... cut the foe... it's not WW1 dog fighting, its WW3 cock fighting!
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #263 on: May 13, 2014, 04:12:27 PM »
It exactly pans out as expected. What gulf/Iraq war were you watching?  :rofl


Maneuver warfare worked out.  But precision munitions were overrated--again.   You buy too much PR.

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #264 on: May 13, 2014, 04:14:40 PM »
They are active for us. Not the Enemy.

Stealth technology for us means the enemy has to fly out there and see us visually. He'll be dead before that, because he has none.


We will have less than 100 stealth aircraft.   The enemy will have many more.   And our stealth will be degraded over time.  It doesn't work forever.   It especially doesn't work when it (RAM) wears down, which it does, particularly in a humid and corrosive environment like the Pacific.  Stealth fighters are of little use when in maintenance.  
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Offline ACE

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Re: F-35
« Reply #265 on: May 13, 2014, 04:16:57 PM »
Vraciu do you know that the government has planes that we do not know about as civilians?  :noid
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: F-35
« Reply #266 on: May 13, 2014, 04:23:15 PM »
Vraciu do you know that the government has planes that we do not know about as civilians?  :noid

Yep. Apparently I am spraying chemtrails all over the place.   Not sure where the equipment is on my plane though...   :noid
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Offline Xavier

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Re: F-35
« Reply #267 on: May 13, 2014, 04:40:20 PM »
Fools! No stealth fighter can match the mighty AYAKS!  :old:
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Offline Changeup

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Re: F-35
« Reply #268 on: May 13, 2014, 05:07:24 PM »
Screw external drop tanks, mount samurai swords on the wings... cut the foe... it's not WW1 dog fighting, its WW3 cock fighting!

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Offline danny76

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Re: F-35
« Reply #269 on: May 14, 2014, 01:09:50 AM »
Yep. Apparently I am spraying chemtrails all over the place.   Not sure where the equipment is on my plane though...   :noid

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