Your profession?

[TheCrazyOrange]

Not every engineer wants to get into putting hands to tools, even less a managementized engineer. However, it is still a good career path for guys who can handle actually having to deliver a result.

I wish engineering were more hands on; would do the real egg heads some good to see and work with the results of their calculations and cyanotypes. From what I've seen in classes, everyone is preaching "sustainable engineering", and this eco crap, even in the basic aero/auto/mech classes. Nevermind that it's less reliable, we can recycle 60% of it when it breaks! First year, they completely glossed over the fact that it call comes down to this:$$$$$$

[Cthulhu]

I wish engineering were more hands on; would do the real egg heads some good to see and work with the results of their calculations...

AMEN!

I've worked with some absolutely brilliant PhD types who didn't have a clue how to make things work in the "real world". Theoretically brilliant, but largely helpless in a practical sense. I had an engineering lead years ago who told me he didn't want anyone working for him who didn't at least know how to change their own oil, or put a bicycle together on Christmas morning. Over the years I've come to adopt the same philosophy.

[REP0MAN]

Certified Bull$h17 detector attached to an elite team of donut destroyers.

[VuduVee]

My opinion might be incorrect, but it isn't incorrect based on ignorance.  

I do think that art, history, art history, artists, musicians, museums, etc. are vital.  There are two problems, though.  

First is that there are many more people who go into those fields than the world wants or needs, as evidenced by their salaries and how many of them never work in the field in which they trained; and a lot of people who go into those fields don't learn this easily researched situation until after they graduate.  This is unfortunate, as they end up being unhappy, disillusioned, and not well off financially, and that is no good for anyone.

Second is the idea that, since those things are so important, college students should spend a substantial portion of their time in those courses.  But are they more important than additional education in the field that will be your profession?  In most cases, no.  Also, are they more important than other things that are neglected?  For example, the information in Basic Economics, by Sowell (or Economics in One Lesson, by Hazlitt), With the Old Breed, by Sledge, basic finance, basic information on what a corporation is, the history of Rome, the information in How to Win Friends and Influence People, the information in You Can Negotiate Anything, and basic logic are unknown by the vast majority of college graduates.  Those items are of vastly more worth to the non-arts graduates and to the nation than having read The Iliad, the Sound and the Fury, the Great Gatsby, a music class, an art class, and a language class.

ohhh ok, yeah i see what youre saying. that makes sense. lol duh!! so yeah i agree that you should be aware of the job prospects when you graduate. and it makes no sense to train in a field without fully researching the job prospects. for me, i trained as a musician and was well aware of the job prospects, my teachers told me, dont do it unless youre ready to be broke. lol, they were right. but i wouldnt change anything. the payoff for art and music is what it can do for the people of our world.

[ink]

ohhh ok, yeah i see what youre saying. that makes sense. lol duh!! so yeah i agree that you should be aware of the job prospects when you graduate. and it makes no sense to train in a field without fully researching the job prospects. for me, i trained as a musician and was well aware of the job prospects, my teachers told me, dont do it unless youre ready to be broke. lol, they were right. but i wouldnt change anything. the payoff for art and music is what it can do for the people of our world.

they don't call it "starving Artist" for nothing

I will say though...Tattooing a very real art...a "living" art....has paid me quite well at times.

[SPKmes]

they don't call it "starving Artist" for nothing

I will say though...Tattooing a very real art...a "living" art....has paid me quite well at times.

sometimes...I'm sure yours are...there are some butchers and printers out there though

[ink]

sometimes...I'm sure yours are...there are some butchers and printers out there though

"some butchers"....understatement. 

I have had people wait 10 years to get tattooed by me....they seem to think I am good.

I do have a loooooooong list of haters though.....

[Brooke]

for me, i trained as a musician and was well aware of the job prospects, my teachers told me, dont do it unless youre ready to be broke. lol, they were right. but i wouldnt change anything. the payoff for art and music is what it can do for the people of our world.

I'm all in favor of that:  people doing what they love, taking pleasure in it, knowing what they are going after, and being happy with it.  

And I do not think money is everything in a profession.  There are many professions that pay well that I wouldn't do because I'd hate doing it day after day.  And some that I like (such as programming) are things that some folks would feel are horribly boring.  A person's preferences figure significantly into all of it.

[vorticon]

Many many kids comming out of school are going right into college hoping to come out and make huge salaries...im not saying it doesnt happen, but not to the majority....The majority are comming out with huge debt, and making average money ( when they can find a job.)

for some reason if you even mention trades, they act like they never even knew it was a possibility, or they act like its "below" them somehow. its funny, though, i make enough to live comfortably, get to spend all summer outside, point out things i built to people any time we pass by it, have a a lot of fun at work, and turn some lines on paper into what will be someones home. there's always something new to learn or try to make things easier

ok, winter sucks, there's some element of danger, my back hurts sometimes and there's always some stupid mistake to fix, or kids with 2-3 years of experience who think they know something to beat into shape...

but the good outweighs the bad most days. can't see why they'd think there's anything wrong with it.

[Changeup]

Trade men will never die.  They have been and always will be what builds America.  You cannot automate customization and customization will always be the deciding factor in a sales final analysis.  There is nothing more incredible than for someone to be able to take wood, metal or alloys and make something from nothing that is good looking and works.  And if you're good enough, you will always be your own boss and THAT is where money resides...not working for someone else.

I'd love to know how many metalworkers on the production line at the Skunkworks had Bachelor's degrees in 1960.  Alum, Titanium and copper geniuses...artists, one and all.

Its one thing to design something that works.  Its something entirely different to build it.  Both are greatness but one is useless without the other.

[PJ_Godzilla]

I wish engineering were more hands on; would do the real egg heads some good to see and work with the results of their calculations and cyanotypes. From what I've seen in classes, everyone is preaching "sustainable engineering", and this eco crap, even in the basic aero/auto/mech classes. Nevermind that it's less reliable, we can recycle 60% of it when it breaks! First year, they completely glossed over the fact that it call comes down to this:$$$$$$

Now here I completely agree with you and in the other thread, not so much. Go figure.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Trade men will never die.  They have been and always will be what builds America.  You cannot automate customization and customization will always be the deciding factor in a sales final analysis.  There is nothing more incredible than for someone to be able to take wood, metal or alloys and make something from nothing that is good looking and works.  And if you're good enough, you will always be your own boss and THAT is where money resides...not working for someone else.
I'd love to know how many metalworkers on the production line at the Skunkworks had Bachelor's degrees in 1960.  Alum, Titanium and copper geniuses...artists, one and all.
Its one thing to design something that works.  Its something entirely different to build it.  Both are greatness but one is useless without the other.

They're both links in a chain. Either one fails and you've got junk... But here I'm going to go OFF a little, specifically on the schools. I actually feel that both engineering and the trades (building stuff) get short shrift from jump. Why? Anecdotal experience. When I was a kid back there in public and private schools, there were plenty of art classes. However, I wanted to build crap and learn about how stuff worked. The only offerings along this line in grade school was math class (no early physics until HS) and one lame model-building extra-curricular when the volunteer dude who ran it was available (not often). Both are denigrated, at least in the hands-on realm, as either dirty , dangerous , or low-brow.

Who do I blame? Frankly, I blame women. Its clear to me that the schools are feminized: run by women for girls. Sure, there are exceptions... But I throw that out there, in part, to be provocative. Most ADD/ADHD diagosis is for behavior that I used to think of as normal boy stuff and is applied to boys. Most class work is feminized.

Okay, rip me a new one for this. Critique...

[Cthulhu]

Who do I blame? Frankly, I blame women. Its clear to me that the schools are feminized: run by women for girls. Sure, there are exceptions... But I throw that out there, in part, to be provocative. Most ADD/ADHD diagosis is for behavior that I used to think of as normal boy stuff and is applied to boys. Most class work is feminized.

Okay, rip me a new one for this. Critique...

A very well known, and amazingly open-minded feminist,  Camille Paglia, actually agrees with you on this one.

[PJ_Godzilla]

A very well known, and amazingly open-minded feminist,  Camille Paglia, actually agrees with you on this one.

Yes, indeed. She is regularly excoriated for this view as well - yet maintains pretty solid exposure.

[Rolex]

Partner in company making portable, lightweight, wireless, full-body motion capture systems used by movie studios, game companies, animators, and sports bio-mechanical analysis.

Small company. About 40 developers doing hardware, software and middle-ware algorithms. Rooms full of PhD's who know how to create and build.

Wrote a very bad (or so I thought) novel ten years ago based on real-life events and people I knew 35 years ago. Recently won the lottery, so to speak, as a real producer and real studio bought the story this year and it's being made into a real movie for release next year. So, I have a part-time job flying back and forth to Hollywood for screenplay meetings and lunches on patios with people who wear sunglasses. I still can't believe it.