(Non-political) Vietnam War Stats

[USRanger]

Some very sad stuff.


Sobering is a bit of an understatement.

There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.

The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 36 years since the last casualties.

Beginning at the apex on panel 1E and going out to the end of the East wall, appearing to recede into the earth (numbered 70E - May 25, 1968), then resuming at the end of the West wall, as the wall emerges from the earth (numbered 70W - continuing May 25, 1968) and ending with a date in 1975. Thus the war's beginning and end meet. The war is complete, coming full circle, yet broken by the earth that bounds the angle's open side and contained within the earth itself.

The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth, Mass. listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956.

His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.

There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.

39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.

The largest age group, 8,283 were just 19 years old

3,103 were 18 years old.

12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.

5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.

One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.

997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam.

1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnan.

31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.

Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.

54 soldiers on the Wall attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia. I wonder why so many from one school.

8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.

244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall.

Beallsville, Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.

West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation. There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci (pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest. And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.

The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam..

In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.

The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.

The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.

That's 2,415 dead in a single month.

Lest we Forget.

[Oldman731]

There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall

I've been to the wall perhaps a dozen times since it was built.  I've been on the verge of tears each time.  I wonder, though, if it just affects people from our generation; if those who come to the wall 20 years from now will just pass by it, thinking that it's interesting, but no different from all the Civil War and WWI and WWII (and, in some places, Korean) war monuments in most every town in this country.  Or is there something special about that particular design, that produces such a powerful emotion, similar to that of the American Cemetery at Omaha?

- oldman

[Plawranc]

Alongside them lay 426 Australians, 37 New Zealanders, 5,100 South Koreans and 20 Anti Communist Chinese.

 

They died not for their own freedom, but for the freedom of others.

[Wmaker]

Deaths caused by the American military[edit]
Rummel estimated that American forces committed around 5,500 democidal killings between 1960 and 1972, from a range of between 4,000 and 10,000.[19] Estimates for the number of North Vietnamese civilian deaths resulting from US bombing range from 50,000-65,000. Although information is sparse, American bombing in Cambodia is estimated to have killed between 40,000 and 150,000 civilians and combatants.[20][21][22]



Burial of 300 unidentified victims from the Huế Massacre, killed by communist forces and found after the ARVN and U.S. Marines retook the area in March, 1968. U.S. Military photo[23][24]
18.2 million gallons of Agent Orange (Dioxin) was sprayed by the U.S. military over more than 10% of Southern Vietnam,[25] as part of the U.S. herbicidal warfare program, Operation Ranch Hand, during the Vietnam War from 1961 to 1971. Vietnam's government claimed that 400,000 people were killed or maimed as a result of after effects, and that 500,000 children were born with birth defects.[26]

German historian Bernd Greiner mentions the following war crimes reported, and/or investigated by the Peers Commission and the Vietnam War Crimes Working Group, among other sources:[27]
- Seven massacres officially confirmed by the American side. My Lai (4) and My Khe (4) claimed the largest number of victims with 420 and 90 respectively, and in five other places altogether about 100 civilians were executed.
- Two further massacres were reported by soldiers who had taken part in them, one north of Duc Pho in Quang Ngai Province in the summer of 1968 (14 victims), another in Binh Dinh province on 20 July 1969 (25 victims).
- Tiger Force, a special operations force, murdered hundreds, possibly over a thousand, civilians.
- In the course of large-scale operations an unknown number of non-combatants were killed either accidentally or deliberately – with some estimating more than 5,000 allegedly died in the course of Operation Speedy Express. Excluding deaths from artillery and air attacks, the total number of victims may have reached tens of thousands during the entire war.
- According to the 'Information Bureau of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of South Vietnam' (PRG), between April 1968 and the end of 1970 American ground troops killed about 6,500 civilians in the course of twenty-one operations either on their own or alongside their allies. Three of the massacres reported on the American side were not mentioned on the PRG list.

Nick Turse, in his 2013 book, Kill Anything that Moves, argues that a relentless drive toward higher body counts, a widespread use of free-fire zones, rules of engagement where civilians who ran from soldiers or helicopters could be viewed as Viet Cong, and a widespread disdain for Vietnamese civilians led to massive civilian casualties and endemic war crimes inflicted by U.S. troops.[28] One example cited by Turse is Operation Speedy Express, an operation by the 9th Infantry Division, which was described by John Paul Vann as, in effect, "many My Lais".[28] In more detail,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties

Vietnam War stats...

[GScholz]

The Vietnam war was like flying for Rooks... Great K/D, but you still lose the war. 

[Scherf]

*sigh*

This too will end badly.

[quig]

West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation. There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

And at least 9 of those earned the MoH:

Accoville native Sgt. Ted Belcher (1st Battalion, 14th Infantry, 25th Infantry Division) was killed when he fell on a grenade at Plei Djerang on 19 November 1966, to save the lives of his troops.

Morgantown native Cpl. Thomas W. Bennett (medic, 1st Battalion, 14th Infantry) was killed in the Chu Pa Region of Pleiku Province on 11 February 1969, while trying to save the life of a soldier. For three days, he had been providing medical aid to wounded soldiers under heavy gunfire.

Entering the service at Fairmont, S/Sgt. Robert W. Hartsock (44th Infantry Platoon, 3rd Brigade, 25th Infantry Division), was killed when he fell on a satchel charge in Hau Nghia Province on 23 February 1969, to save the lives of other soldiers.

Montgomery native Sp4c. Carmel B. Harvey (1st Cavalry Division Airmobile) was killed when enemy fire exploded a grenade attached to his belt while charging an enemy position in Binh Dinh Province on 21 June 1967.

Avondale (McDowell Co.) native PFC Phill G. McDonald (1st Battalion, 14th Infantry, 4th Infantry Division) was killed while providing cover fire near Kontum City on 7 June 1968.

Pvt. Gary W. Martini of Charleston (2nd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division) saved the life of a wounded soldier after being fatally wounded himself at Binh Son on 21 April 1967.

Logan native S/Sgt. Frankie Zoly Molnar (8th Infantry, 4th Infantry Division) was killed when he fell on a grenade in Kontum Province on 20 May 1967, to save the lives of other soldiers.

Claremont (Fayette Co.) native Lt. Col. Charles C. Rogers (1st Battalion, 5th Artillery, 1st Infantry Division) was seriously wounded but continued to lead an artillery attack at Fishhook near the Cambodian border on 1 November 1968.

West Columbia native S/Sgt. Jimmy G. Stewart (12th Cavalry, 1st Cavalry Division Airmobile) was killed while singlehandedly defending a position on 18 May 1966.

 

[Volron]

My father was very close to being one of those names on that wall.  I'm sure glad he wasn't, or I wouldn't be here.

[PJ_Godzilla]

The only missing piece: Vietnamese civilian deaths caused by the NVA and VC. And, of course, let's not forget the Pathetic Lao and Khmer Rouge.

Understand: as in Europe at the end of WWII, there were isolated cases of US troops committing atrocities against specific orders against... On the Soviet side, the orders were also quite specific, but showed no such restraint.

[Rino]

     Good luck with the non-political posts.  Way too many folks with agendas here for that to happen.

[Tinkles]

     Good luck with the non-political posts.  Way too many folks with agendas here for that to happen.

This.

  To those who have served.

[Raven3]

Deaths caused by the American military[edit]
Rummel estimated that American forces committed around 5,500 democidal killings between 1960 and 1972, from a range of between 4,000 and 10,000.[19] Estimates for the number of North Vietnamese civilian deaths resulting from US bombing range from 50,000-65,000. Although information is sparse, American bombing in Cambodia is estimated to have killed between 40,000 and 150,000 civilians and combatants.[20][21][22]



Burial of 300 unidentified victims from the Huế Massacre, killed by communist forces and found after the ARVN and U.S. Marines retook the area in March, 1968. U.S. Military photo[23][24]
18.2 million gallons of Agent Orange (Dioxin) was sprayed by the U.S. military over more than 10% of Southern Vietnam,[25] as part of the U.S. herbicidal warfare program, Operation Ranch Hand, during the Vietnam War from 1961 to 1971. Vietnam's government claimed that 400,000 people were killed or maimed as a result of after effects, and that 500,000 children were born with birth defects.[26]

German historian Bernd Greiner mentions the following war crimes reported, and/or investigated by the Peers Commission and the Vietnam War Crimes Working Group, among other sources:[27]
- Seven massacres officially confirmed by the American side. My Lai (4) and My Khe (4) claimed the largest number of victims with 420 and 90 respectively, and in five other places altogether about 100 civilians were executed.
- Two further massacres were reported by soldiers who had taken part in them, one north of Duc Pho in Quang Ngai Province in the summer of 1968 (14 victims), another in Binh Dinh province on 20 July 1969 (25 victims).
- Tiger Force, a special operations force, murdered hundreds, possibly over a thousand, civilians.
- In the course of large-scale operations an unknown number of non-combatants were killed either accidentally or deliberately – with some estimating more than 5,000 allegedly died in the course of Operation Speedy Express. Excluding deaths from artillery and air attacks, the total number of victims may have reached tens of thousands during the entire war.
- According to the 'Information Bureau of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of South Vietnam' (PRG), between April 1968 and the end of 1970 American ground troops killed about 6,500 civilians in the course of twenty-one operations either on their own or alongside their allies. Three of the massacres reported on the American side were not mentioned on the PRG list.

Nick Turse, in his 2013 book, Kill Anything that Moves, argues that a relentless drive toward higher body counts, a widespread use of free-fire zones, rules of engagement where civilians who ran from soldiers or helicopters could be viewed as Viet Cong, and a widespread disdain for Vietnamese civilians led to massive civilian casualties and endemic war crimes inflicted by U.S. troops.[28] One example cited by Turse is Operation Speedy Express, an operation by the 9th Infantry Division, which was described by John Paul Vann as, in effect, "many My Lais".[28] In more detail,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties

Vietnam War stats...

And sir, your point is??

[68Raptor]

and here we go!

[TheCrazyOrange]

Point is a bunch of US and allied soldiers, and SVN civilians died, which is terrible and sad. And a lot of NVN and Cambodian soldiers and civilians, and VC terrorists, which is slightly less terrible, but still sad. It was a war, and people die in war, you just hope less of your neighbors die.

What's disgusting is that some would try to use their deaths to make their point. Both sides believed in their causes, and both sides fought for what they believed. You can argue about who is right or wrong, but it doesn't make them any less dead, doesn't make their sacrifice any more or less meaningful, and doesn't change a thing.

Now get and stay off your high horses, and show some Golly-geen respect.

[Masherbrum]

And sir, your point is??

Why did you bite on that weak bait?