Author Topic: Replacement for the Brew  (Read 9096 times)

Offline Wmaker

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #150 on: June 17, 2014, 11:29:20 AM »
Personally I haven't ever really tested Brewster's max. dive speed in AH because I probably can count the times I've been over 500 mph in the MA in it with two hands. Considering how light and draggy Brewster is, it is always simply a gigantic waste of E.

The primary reason why I haven't tested it is that we are then arriving to the regime of the flight envelope where it is practically impossible to get info on unless some kind of standard modelling practice would be introduced for all planes for example where flutter would start after going certain percent past VNE for all planes. Only recently I've noticed more planes having lower speeds where flutter occurs (Hurricanes got a new flight model with the new shape and are an example of this).

The point is one can't just single out a single plane no matter what it is as far as how well they hold up in dive IMO unless they are all reviewed.

That said, I don't think any sane person would take "standard issue" Brewster anywhere near 500 mph in real life. NACA tested F2A-3 was diven to rather high mach numbers but they specifically over balanced the ailerons to prevent flutter.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 11:31:22 AM by Wmaker »
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #151 on: June 17, 2014, 02:13:04 PM »
I have no idea if the Brewster is modeled correctly or not. All I know is that it doesn't even seem close to an F2A-3 Buffalo, and I want something more appropriate for early war Pacific scenarios.

The B-239's performance shouldn't be close to the F2A-3, the performance is much more closer to the F2A-1 (with less weight due to the removal of the naval gear).

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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #152 on: June 18, 2014, 12:32:18 PM »
Still no flim from the brewhiners. But we all knew there wouldn't be.
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Offline Coalcat1

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #153 on: June 18, 2014, 02:25:16 PM »
This is coming from the person who thought this wasa big troll attempt  :rofl I told you all I do not have the film, but my squad CO does, and is unwilling to post it. As stated before, I am done posting on this thread, this being my last post here.

Offline BuckShot

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #154 on: June 18, 2014, 03:23:08 PM »
This is coming from the person who thought this wasa big troll attempt  :rofl I told you all I do not have the film, but my squad CO does, and is unwilling to post it. As stated before, I am done posting on this thread, this being my last post here.

Why won't your squaddie post it or let you post it?
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #155 on: June 18, 2014, 03:35:48 PM »
We don't need any films.  What we need is as much of the Brew modeled in AH performance data as we can find.

Any test you do is only testing HTC design assumptions which may be dead on but without the Brew's original test data, we are all in a pile of apples and oranges.

Offline bustr

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #156 on: June 18, 2014, 03:39:52 PM »
If it is a constant occurrence in the MA of the miraculous things the Brew does. Why can't you get a few friends into the DA, all running film, and duplicate the miraculous Brew things? At some point BrewBannor will change to BrewHulk, and you will have it on film.
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline muzik

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #157 on: June 18, 2014, 10:03:21 PM »
A lot of work goes into building source data.  Putting it out there in the open would be essentially doing their competition's work for them.

That said, there are only so many actual sources and we know many of them.  In the case of the B239 it is Finnish sources and it matches everything wmaker has shown us that he has.  Nobody has yet to produce anything that says otherwise.  Putting out unsupported claims that something is off isn't how it works.  You must provide the support.  I've done it in the past and gotten changes implemented, you can do it too.

I doubt hiding the source data is all that big of an inconvenience for the competition, assuming they were looking for it on the AH BBs in the first place.

Second, any competitor with a mind to creating accurate FM's is not going to trust the AH BBs.

And last, if any competitor cared so little as to trust a BB post when modeling their flight sim, it wouldn't matter if the data they stole from AH was the best you could find, their entire game and FM is going to be such a joke as to completely remove them from the "competition" category.

There is no valid reason to hide the data from us.



Judging solely from wikipedia, I don't get the impression the Fins did any extensive flight testing on those aircraft. They apparently did brief, rudimentary flight tests before quickly sending them off to squadrons.

I can believe that because it was not an excessively cautious time period and because the Buffalo was an established a/c and likely delivered with plenty of flight test data as purchased.

This suggest what data is available, may come from combat reports and experience which is not an ideal source by itself.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #158 on: June 18, 2014, 11:18:58 PM »
This suggest what data is available, may come from combat reports and experience which is not an ideal source by itself.

Your conclusion totally false.

It has been discussed before on this BBS and I've listed the documents that had the biggest amount of technical info regarding the plane and those docs were produced by Brewster Corp. and not produced by FiAF. Finnish Air Force ran performance tests (speed and climb) which confirmed that figures given by Brewster Corp. were accurate. Also, flight testing was done for Finnish delegation in the United States (three seperate airframes) to confirm the performance of the aircraft before the purchase.

It is pretty silly conclusion that anecdotal info could somehow be turned into a flight model...just as silly as the thought that most data of an aircraft that is produced in the United States would be authored by an entity in Finland.
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Offline FLS

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #159 on: June 19, 2014, 12:06:25 AM »

There is no valid reason to hide the data from us.


There is no valid reason to produce source data that cost HTC time and money.

Speed and climb rate are available for every AH aircraft. That's their published data.

Offline BnZs

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #160 on: June 19, 2014, 01:11:33 AM »
Dive to max speed followed by maximum Immelman and dive for max speed again in 2 planes, starting with the brew.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/vx2wzaje9mbld2y/2014Brew.ahf
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 01:23:39 AM by BnZs »
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #161 on: June 19, 2014, 06:39:15 AM »
<snipt>
This suggest what data is available, may come from combat reports and experience which is not an ideal source by itself.

We (HTC) NEVER use anecdotal information to model anything.  NEVER.  This type of rumor is absolutely baseless and without any merit.

This is the type of posting which gets people banned from our board.  It wastes our time and muddles any chance of having a decent discussion.  It is useless, baseless, derogatory speculation.

Dive to max speed followed by maximum Immelman and dive for max speed again in 2 planes, starting with the brew.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/vx2wzaje9mbld2y/2014Brew.ahf

Does me no good.  I need to ban mediafire links from our board.  That site is notorious for delivering viruses, spyware, and malware.  It also strips all the debugging data we have embedded in our films.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 08:29:46 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Tinkles

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #162 on: June 19, 2014, 06:45:44 AM »
<Paddling>

Does me no good.  I need to ban mediafire links from our board.  That site is notorious for delivering viruses, spyware, and malware.  It also strips all the debugging data we have embedded in our films.

What website do you recommend us to upload AHF's to then, instead of mediafire?
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #163 on: June 19, 2014, 07:49:43 AM »
This is coming from the person who thought this wasa big troll attempt  :rofl I told you all I do not have the film, but my squad CO does, and is unwilling to post it. As stated before, I am done posting on this thread, this being my last post here.
Well when you started this thread with this:
Quote
I have never understood why we have the Finnish brew in the first place. I know in reality there is no way it can climb like it does in game, turn like a KI43, roll like a 190, keep in control at 600+mph, do a 180 and hold all of its E, and take damage like a jug. Therefore my wish is that it is replaced with an accurately modeled, like most AC in game, F2A. But at this point, I wouldn't mind if the B239 was nerfed to the point of being able to accurately represent the F2A, because they are pretty much the same AC.

                                                               salute Coalcat1

       P.S there was no particular reson I'm posting this, just been seeing a lot of brews in the MA doing things that are very unrealistic allowed only by our F22 superbrew.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Replacement for the Brew
« Reply #164 on: June 19, 2014, 08:04:15 AM »
It also strips all the debugging data we have embedded in our films.


How would they do that? After all this would mean they are changing the content of the ahf, which should be difficult to do without wreckign that file alltogether without any superior knowledge of your .ahf format  :headscratch:


I checked one of my films uploaded there, it's exactly identical with the original, no alterations
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