Replacement for the Brew

[Muzzy]

I beat Redbull's K4 using the Ki-43. You just have to be smart about timing, and hoard E like your life depends on it.

'cause it kinda does.

[Changeup]

The SpitV  can do this much better than the Brew of course

If the Brew driver manages his E through the first two turns, this statement is as incorrect as you can possibly get.  The Brew will outturn, outhang, and out dive the Spit V completely.  JUGgler and I ran the Brew vs all zekes, vs Spit V and Spit XVI and the Brew crushed them all from 10K down to the deck.  He and I switched planes and even though JUGgler is a much better toon pilot than I am, I beat him repeatedly in the Brew except in the zekes

[TheCrazyOrange]

'cause it kinda does.

What does what?

[Zimme83]

The Brew works pretty well in low-alt, low-e fights around bases with a lot of fighters in the air. Under those circumstances u could catch figthers in a low E position and use the Brews turn capabillity to score. However you have to take the chanses that u get, its hard to manouver your plane to a good attack position so you often have to wait untill someone gets close enough. Ok, i suck as a fighter pilot but a Lw figther can do pretty much as it want against a Brew. Even if u can dive down on him u have 2-3 sec to shoot before he zooms away.
With good SA and if u use the turning capability to evade attackers u can stay alive for some time even against LW-fighters but the Brew pilot isnt exactly dictating the terms of the fight.

The only situation were the Brew have an actual advantage over LW-fighters like the p-51 is when the pony-pilot start to turn like a maniac. At that point the Brew is glued to his six and it easily stays there (until the pony stops turning of course)

[Karnak]

What does what?

Your virtual life does depend on it.

[Changeup]

The Brew works pretty well in low-alt, low-e fights around bases with a lot of fighters in the air. Under those circumstances u could catch figthers in a low E position and use the Brews turn capabillity to score. However you have to take the chanses that u get, its hard to manouver your plane to a good attack position so you often have to wait untill someone gets close enough. Ok, i suck as a fighter pilot but a Lw figther can do pretty much as it want against a Brew. Even if u can dive down on him u have 2-3 sec to shoot before he zooms away.
With good SA and if u use the turning capability to evade attackers u can stay alive for some time even against LW-fighters but the Brew pilot isnt exactly dictating the terms of the fight.

The only situation were the Brew have an actual advantage over LW-fighters like the p-51 is when the pony-pilot start to turn like a maniac. At that point the Brew is glued to his six and it easily stays there (until the pony stops turning of course)

Ummm, no.

[BnZs]

I was referring to the SpitV vrs faster late war plane, not duels between Brewsters and other early-war planes. It is my perception that the SpitV is harder get on top of and stay on top than the Brewster. And also the extent to which lighter-loaded planes of all sorts can pull G and then match zooms with faster planes who did a gentle pull up is just weird.

It the Brew can beat the SpitXVI in the vertical then there IS something wrong with it.

If the Brew driver manages his E through the first two turns, this statement is as incorrect as you can possibly get.  The Brew will outturn, outhang, and out dive the Spit V completely.  JUGgler and I ran the Brew vs all zekes, vs Spit V and Spit XVI and the Brew crushed them all from 10K down to the deck.  He and I switched planes and even though JUGgler is a much better toon pilot than I am, I beat him repeatedly in the Brew except in the zekes

[FLOOB]

The Brew will outturn, outhang, and out dive the Spit V completely.

That's no surprise, the brew handles better than spits at low speeds and high speeds. The spit holds E better though so If the spit pilot keeps that in mind instead of getting into a stall fight he should be able to fight on his terms. I would find it odd if the brewster accelerates faster in a dive than a spit since the spit accelerates much faster in level flight than the brewster.

[BnZs]

I would find it odd if the brewster accelerates faster in a dive than a spit since the spit accelerates much faster in level flight than the brewster.

This too.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Somebody must've had a Brewie put a hot foamy stream into their cornflakes. There is zero need to tangle with the yappy dogs. If you're in proximity, carry some e. if not, no worries. The good thing about flying them: the fight comes to you

Anyway, I say that as a cartoon pilot with mediocre skills compared to the full range available here. My testimony: any fear that those things are somehow uber is a bit silly. That said, in a Finland FSO frame a few years back, a guy named BicWill and I had some real fun in the b239. Eventually, a Yak got me, but not before I'd gotten a kill and shot up a Yak and some of his ack. We were the only reps from our squad that night and fought through two sorties.

It's a hardy little thing, but hardly uber.

This whole thing looks silly and trollish. I won't back seat moderate but I think this kind of silliness deserves a bit of the wooden shampoo.

Harumph.

[Wmaker]

Are you saying that the Brewster Corp produced flight test data on the B239? Before the Finns modified the a/c? Or after?

What figures? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the B239 was the result of modifications by the Finns and Brewster did not put out a version of this prior to the Finns purchase (or ever from my understanding.) So are you saying figures for the Buffalo matched the 239? Or they were extrapolated?

Like I've said before, the myth that Finns somehow completely souped up the aircraft and did some massive modifications (I've heard this on this BBS many times) is exactly that a myth. Finns added pilot armor (around 70 lbs), later added .50 cal in place of the .30, replaced the carrier type tail wheel with a larger one and other smaller modifications that increased reliability. Weight of the armor and the .50 cal are accounted for in the weight of the AH Brewster.

For example speed at the continuous power setting was 1 km/h faster than what Brewster Corp. had promised. The point that I'm making is that this truly delighted Finns as G.50 and MS.406 for example fell short of what the manufacturer had promised. Brewster matched the manufacturer's data on three separate occasions: manufacturers own testing, the test flight arranged by Finns in the States and in test flights in Finland...and that data matches AH.

Three separate airframes? That doesn't sound like B239, and I'm guessing you would say so if one of them were a 239.

So here is a conclusion, everything you just said sounds like the data on the Brew is extrapolated from variants of the Buffalo and no extensive testing of a 239 was done. Which I have no problem with. I'm not sure if an accurate reproduction could be created that way, but then I haven't seen your data.

Three B239 airframes were tested in the United States out of the order of 44 B239s that were delivered to Finland. Clear enough now?

I didn't state ANY conclusion. I especially didn't say that anecdotal info alone could be used. I related info that suggested a possibility.

I could care less if they used "anecdotal" info in their flight model as long as it is heavily balanced by some data. If enough pilots contradict data and say that an aircraft did poopdifrikkenloop in combat, then I say put it in there.

Some understanding of physics and how they are applied in engineering sciences helps. You can't turn subjective combat reports into factual numbers that can be used in physics modelling, period. So even mentioning them in this context is silliness to the n'th degree.



---------------------
For those who like to read on how the Brewster arrived to Norway in crates, were assembled and test flown in Sweden and then flown to Finland, here's an excellent article: http://www.sci.fi/~fta/BWtoFAF1.htm

[JUGgler]

If the Brew driver manages his E through the first two turns, this statement is as incorrect as you can possibly get.  The Brew will outturn, outhang, and out dive the Spit V completely.  JUGgler and I ran the Brew vs all zekes, vs Spit V and Spit XVI and the Brew crushed them all from 10K down to the deck.  He and I switched planes and even though JUGgler is a much better toon pilot than I am, I beat him repeatedly in the Brew except in the zekes

This is all true except the "better toon pilot" part...

I always thought the Brew to be the easiest plane in the game. It creates mediocrity from ineptness, excellence from mediocrity and superb excellence from excellence. Then you just stop using it cause it is just too easy to use. I have no idea how things are now but when I was playing every "good" player tried it and in short order stopped using it cause it is virtually no challenge to use. Maker uses it cause he has legitimate Finnish interest in it but other than him I knew of no "good player" that would use it "regularly" due to it lacking any real challenge to be successful in.

The Brewster is a BEAST, and the easiest ride in the game.

IMHO


JUGgler

[Tinkles]

This is all true except the "better toon pilot" part...

I always thought the Brew to be the easiest plane in the game. It creates mediocrity from ineptness, excellence from mediocrity and superb excellence from excellence. Then you just stop using it cause it is just too easy to use. I have no idea how things are now but when I was playing every "good" player tried it and in short order stopped using it cause it is virtually no challenge to use. Maker uses it cause he has legitimate Finnish interest in it but other than him I knew of no "good player" that would use it "regularly" due to it lacking any real challenge to be successful in.

The Brewster is a BEAST, and the easiest ride in the game.

IMHO


JUGgler

While it may be adept in many areas, I think that it is still a decently easy plane to kill. The only times I was ever killed by a brew, was when I flown foolishly, don't fight the brew's fight, make it fight yours.   

[Zerstorer]

I always thought the Brew to be the easiest plane in the game. It creates mediocrity from ineptness, excellence from mediocrity and superb excellence from excellence. Then you just stop using it cause it is just too easy to use. I have no idea how things are now but when I was playing every "good" player tried it and in short order stopped using it cause it is virtually no challenge to use.

This is quote worthy.

Over the years a few Brew pilots I've beaten 1v1 while flying an A6M3 have claimed I had an unfair advantage because its a superior plane in comparision to the Brew.    

The A6M3 has cannons with good hitting power but crappy ballistics.  A6M3 also has a small (~20mph) speed advantage and slightly more signiificant climb advantage below 5K.  Pilot wounds happen frequently when to pilots, assuming the plane doesn't decide to do a "Johnny Storm" impression when hit (i.e. "Flame On!!") 

Brew dives better, appears to retain E slightly better in a turn, has far more accurate armament and is built like a tank. 

Turn rate is about the same.

At best they are evenly matched.  In my mind the A6M3's disadvantages more than offset it's advantages when matched against the Brew.

All that said, killing Brews in a 110G is much more fun.    

[BnZs]

The stats don't really bear that. Last full tour the Brew had a k/d of .67. To put this in perspective, the Ki-43 last tour had a k/d of .73.

Okay, I know what you are going to say now, the Brew is a plane often flown by noobs on base defense. It gets mishandled and vulched a lot.

However, the same is true *in spades* for the SpitXVI, and it has a k/d of 1.21 last tour.

It is no doubt a tough little target 1v1, but the stats prove it just isn't that effective in the MA. And I've never seen a Brew doing anything distinctly different from what other planes do. Now, I have seen all kinds of planes LIKE the Brew-light wing loaded, underpowered turners-pull a lot of G while still being able to retain enough energy to menace late-war engine monsters with being run down long enough to be shot or caught in the vertical. This raises my eyebrows a  bit, but it is a game-wide thing that occurs with multiple planes, not just the Brew.

This is all true except the "better toon pilot" part...

I always thought the Brew to be the easiest plane in the game.
The Brewster is a BEAST, and the easiest ride in the game.

IMHO


JUGgler