Tool Shedding-Get rid of it.

[Coalcat1]

And towns and map rooms, no one likes it when you take a furball base 

[BnZs]

Opinions aren't facts. If you find bomber hunting tedious, don't do it. A lot of people love the hunt, and bombers are free kills most of the time. Don't expect HTC to implement some ridiculous perk prize just so you can be bothered to go kill some bombers.

Obviously it is tedious. The numbers of dedicated buff hunters is relatively few. If it were barrels of fun everyone would be doing it.

Why should someone not be given more reward for killing a bomber than say a P-51D? Especially considering that your average bomber formation is more dangerous to fight than your average P-51D. And again, it is hard to argue that bomber formations aren't more important to the MA war effort than fighters.

By the way, by your logic FH should be indestructible because they remove fighters from the equation, so I guess that ords should be indestructible too, right? I mean, they put the bombers out of the sky, it's only fair! And what about manned ack? I mean, I can't gun anymore just because some strafing dweeb had to destroy them! Make them indestructible! And don't get me started on VH, they should have been from day one  

Actually, if there were no hangar banging I would see little reason to destroy ords in the first place. And it has always seemed a bit silly that one suicide 190 can take out ords. Manned guns are already inherently different in that they don't score a kill and you don't get a death when they take them out, so they are fine.

When I say hangars should no longer be destructible objects, I include the VHs. Picture it: The attackers drop the acks and starts vulching. Some of the vulchees up wirbles to defend their runway and take vengeance on the vulchers. The attackers bring back bombers and jabos and take vengeance on the vehicles stacked on the runway. Then the defenders up cannon birds to take vengeance on the bombers...on and on it goes.

The cycle of carnage is much superior gameplay over the typical story: Attackers drop hangars and shoot some town objects. Someone brings a troop transport. Done. *Yawn*

[Xavier]

Obviously it is tedious.

It's tedious for you.

Why should someone not be given more reward for killing a bomber than say a P-51D? Especially considering that your average bomber formation is more dangerous to fight than your average P-51D.

Well, why should it be more rewarded? And by the way, killing a bomber formation takes mostly one skill: patience. Even lousy shots like myself can get a whole formation with little risk, if you use the correct approaches and know where to aim. Or simply fly a Me-410 and snipe them to pieces without getting a single hit.

Picture it: The attackers drop the acks and starts vulching. Some of the vulchees up wirbles to defend their runway and take vengeance on the vulchers. The attackers bring back bombers and jabos and take vengeance on the vehicles stacked on the runway. Then the defenders up cannon birds to take vengeance on the bombers...on and on it goes.

You do realize why the VH is one of the first things to drop when taking a base, right? To prevent an endless swarm of wirbels rushing to town. Add some suicide La7 pilots on the deck and you have an impossible base take. Of course, to clean that pileup of gvs in town someone is eventually gonna up a formation of lancasters and carpet bomb the center. And then you'll whine again...

It's the circle of life!

[SlipKnt]

 

Why not this?

Any Airbase = VH is indestructible; Must kill troops to stop a resupply elsewhere for the amount of time per current conditions

Any Vehicle base = Storch hanger is indestructible; Maybe push it a little further away from the MR

Any port = Storch hanger is indestructible

Would slightly change the dynamic of the base take while promoting the fight.  Base take would take longer...

[BnZs]

Well, why should it be more rewarded? And by the way, killing a bomber formation takes mostly one skill: patience.

By "patience", you mean being born without a boredom gene. It is statistically interesting that many AH players seem to share that anomaly, but crafting the game around them makes it less appealing for the rest of the human species, as is clearly indicated by AH's death spiral on player numbers.
Again, it should be rewarded because it is a more important duty that is not as inherently fun for most as fighter-on-fighter combat.

Of course, to clean that pileup of gvs in town someone is eventually gonna up a formation of lancasters and carpet bomb the center. And then you'll whine again...

That is a piece of the scenario I outlined earlier and clearly called a good thing, as long as the guys who just got bombed can up for vengeance. I will probably be in a fighter of course, so I won't whine, I will be glad to see swarms of low Lancs. Endless cycle of reprisals, bad for societies but good for a game that is supposed to be about player-versus-player combat.

[danny76]

I am beginning to think that some of what BnZ has said has legs FWIW (which is little if the degree of pedantry and vitriol in here so far is anything to go by)

[caldera]

Just think how many fun killing bombers BnZs could have dispatched, with the amount of time he invested in this thread.   

[danny76]

Just think how many fun killing bombers BnZs could have dispatched, with the amount of time he invested in this thread.   

Well, if he is anything like me, none. He would have spent 45 minutes trying to get above them, or in front of them unsuccessfully, only to be lasered by what appear to  be Lanc belly guns when opting for getting below them

[BnZs]

Just think how many fun killing bombers BnZs could have dispatched, with the amount of time he invested in this thread.   

The back and forth on the BBS is more fun than the typical mission profile for buff hunting. That says something I think. Thus mebbe there need to be extra incentives for the necessary task of buff hunting.

[PJ_Godzilla]

I am beginning to think that some of what BnZ has said has legs FWIW (which is little if the degree of pedantry and vitriol in here so far is anything to go by)

Hmmm... One who is influenced by fact and/or logic... what do we call this?

[PJ_Godzilla]

And what about the seaborne counterpart to all this; the CV? On one hand, leaving the CV up ensures a stream of heavy meat. OTOH, is IS an attractive target for somebody looking to land some big damage.

[Xavier]

By "patience", you mean being born without a boredom gene.

Nothing to add here  

It is statistically interesting that many AH players seem to share that anomaly

Maybe...maybe they even enjoy it! Those little stinky bastards! How dare they enjoy something I don't?  

I will be glad to see swarms of low Lancs.

So it's a-ok when the buffs are low and you don't need to spend two minutes climbing that extra 10K. It almost seems like you want them served on a platter...

Again, it should be rewarded because it is a more important duty that is not as inherently fun for most as fighter-on-fighter combat.

Killing a set of buffs already gives you more perks than a low eny fighter. And if you have more trouble killing a set of lancs than getting a P-51D, there's not much I can do for you.

Thus mebbe there need to be extra incentives for the necessary task of buff hunting.

So you want HTC to make your job easier hunting those dirty bombers. What's next, asking for drones to kill formations quicker? Oh wait...

[bustr]

Since BnZ is identifying a time and scale dynamic out of proportion to the current active player population on any given night. Why not ask for an adjustment in down times of hangers and other objects to be less than the current in force? Leave their reward numbers as is for their efforts. Weren't those times increased some years back to account for the super hoards we once had in the MA?

The biggest unintended consequence will be having to bring a mega hoard to wipe the field out in a single blow, or a very organized group to capture the town relying more on accurate bomber passes to lead the way. Maybe set NOE back to what it once was for radar. You would defiantly get more nibblers attacking something. Maybe more missions in general. Otherwise, the nibblers in their jabo trucks and lonesome bomber pilots will "Only Be Irritating" to the hard core nightly furball in progress. And the tankers who often rely on the furball's two airfields proximity for their spawn battles will be happier.

These are numbers HTC can adjust right now. Then monitor the forums for the purse fights and end of the world whines as they erupt in response.

[BnZs]

Maybe...maybe they even enjoy it! Those little stinky bastards! How dare they enjoy something I don't?  

Actually most don't enjoy it, because most aren't doing it. I am simply pointing out that since the game been becoming more boring and driving players off for a few years (through being so darn boring), the tendencies of the remaining players probably skew a bit towards an absent boredom gene. Moreover, the culture of the BBS leans towards defending the status quo in the same manner that fundamentalists defend Biblical inerrancy. This further skews opinion one sees on the boards.

So it's a-ok when the buffs are low and you don't need to spend two minutes climbing that extra 10K. It almost seems like you want them served on a platter...

You said I would object to a set of Lancs coming to carpet bomb vehicles defending town. I pointed out how this actually fits perfectly into the scenario of continuous action that I positively endorsed. This bit of sophistry is just you trying to conceal the fact of your logical pwn'age. Thanks for stepping directly into the cut!

Killing a set of buffs already gives you more perks than a low eny fighter. And if you have more trouble killing a set of lancs than getting a P-51D, there's not much I can do for you.

When I meet another individual alone in a P-51D  with just enough energy to close on him, it almost always turns out to be free kill for me. Hell, when they dive on me with the energy advantage it is also almost always a free kill if they commit to fighting instead of running. I am soon in a better position and there is nothing they can do but eventually die in the vast majority of cases.
Now compare this to attacking heavy buff formations. If my energy advantage is only just enough to close on their tails, then my attack is suicide. One really needs what amounts to a rather massive E advantage over buffs before attacking. If you need more of an advantage to fight average buffs than you do your average P-51D, then it is perfectly logical to say that bombers have been made more formidable than P-51Ds in this game, especially as gunnery in bombers has been deliberately made as simple as using as  mouse with a GUI. I tried upping a set of B-17s one night, gunning with the mouse, and with no bomber experience whatsoever I killed fighters with shocking ease. In another case, I encountered the same pilot over the course of a weekend when he was flying both fighters and bombers. I never failed to pwn his fighter with ease every single time, but he managed to damage my plane every single time he was flying bombers. Note that this rough experiment removed all variables related to skill level, because the same two players participated in all encounters. Therefore, it is again perfectly logical to say that in some respects bombers have been made tougher to fight than fighters in this game, and I think it is reasonable to say that this is odd and probably skews things a certain direction.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Yes, imj, a fighting Pony is an easier kill than a trio of Lancs. The Lancs fight back.

You still suck, though, BnZs, for trying to deprive Smeegol of his precious.

MEanwhile, you should address my question on the CV and what to do about it. This one's a little more tricky.

Of course, none of this will go beyond the four virtual walls of this room. HT is not letting us peek behind the curtain just lately. I wonder what's up?