What could I have done better in these two engagements?

[nrshida]

would you explain #3 in detail?

I would go to the clinic but time is hectic....

10 years here and one would think my aim should be good....
its opposite of good.....

I have studied my films and see a lot of nose bounce...and over compensating...

an exercise that will help that would be very cool indeed.

Not meaning to anticipate the gunnery instructor's answer Ink, as I'm only an amateur marksman, but nose bounce is suggestive that you aren't thinking about the fourth dimension of gunnery and are making micro-corrections at the wrong time. If I remember correctly American bomber gunners were taught clay pigeon shooting to learn how to follow through and shoot in advance of their target?

Could I suggest paying less attention to your gunsight and watch your target more. As a really Zen exercise try watching your target as the guns solution unfolds and then close your eyes right before you fire. This will certainly get rid of the bounce and lay a good foundation for progress.

Besides guns make a loud bang and jump around. Probably for the best to close your eyes. 




 

[Drano]

10 years here and one would think my aim should be good....
its opposite of good.....

Not a very exclusive club amgo! I've been doing it longer and am just as bad. Still,, you manage to hit my plane purty good whenever we run across each other! 

[ink]

Not meaning to anticipate the gunnery instructor's answer Ink, as I'm only an amateur marksman, but nose bounce is suggestive that you aren't thinking about the fourth dimension of gunnery and are making micro-corrections at the wrong time. If I remember correctly American bomber gunners were taught clay pigeon shooting to learn how to follow through and shoot in advance of their target?

Could I suggest paying less attention to your gunsight and watch your target more. As a really Zen exercise try watching your target as the guns solution unfolds and then close your eyes right before you fire. This will certainly get rid of the bounce and lay a good foundation for progress.

Besides guns make a loud bang and jump around. Probably for the best to close your eyes. 




 

I always respect your opinion 

but I never pay attention to the gunsight...

I do what is supposed to be done...try to unload the frame...aim for his flight path...ECT ECT....but reviewing films show a lot of nose bounce and rounds falling behind the con (I am guessing I am firing too late at that point)......I have changed my curves on the scaling...but I don't think thats it...or whats causing the nose bounce(although I am not a great shot in the RW with firearms so it isn't surprising to me I suk at aiming)

I could use glasses but I dont think thats the issue....I have zero problems tracking the cons and setting up the angles shot...I just dont hit it often...

although last night I was not in the best of moods and decided It would be much better to kill red guys then let go of my anger in the RW...so I log in...

at 2 points close to each other I had cons come in and as they pass by and I avoid their pass...as they went by I lit them up and got the kills...each one was just one squeeze of the trigger......wish I could do that every time.

Not a very exclusive club amgo! I've been doing it longer and am just as bad. Still,, you manage to hit my plane purty good whenever we run across each other! 

 

there are certain shots that I do hit pretty good....or should I say certain times....when it seems I cant miss...but damn they are so far between each other it seems like I have the worst Aim in game.....




I even had one of the very best shots ingame try to teach me(we spent more then a small amount of time at it)...haha he was always puzzled that I couldn't hit...he figured I must have a steady hand due to tattooing(which is true I have a very steady hand when doing ink)

but its like that old saying....2 left feet when it comes to dancing....

but even Grizz threw up his hands and said I just suk at aiming.







ok that last part is not true..he is way to nice of a guy to say something like that.

[Kingpin]

My apologies to Batmannn, as we seem to be derailing his thread a little, but gunnery was definitely one of his issues, so I suppose it's still in the realm of "on topic".

In response to INK:

What might be helpful first, is for me to see one of your films in question.  Can you post or PM me a film with the "nose bounce" issue in it?  (If you can, let me know what particular time segment in the film you want me to look at.)  That might help me see the problem and possibly help diagnose it.

As Shida (hey Shida, good to see you!) said above, it could be micro stick corrections or it could be the "hunting for the center" effect the FM has if you release the stick abruptly.  It could also be "fighting the auto-trim" as well.  Or it could be a combination of all three issues.  Seeing a film might help diagnose that a little.  

The exercise(s) in question are more about looking at your results.  So, simply explaining them here along with all the information needed to self-analyse the results is going to be too difficult and may not entirely help.  It would probably be a lot more helpful if we could get together in person, so I could walk you through two exercises that relate to maneuvering and unloaded shooting and go over your results with you.  

Since you and I had already exchanged PMs about working in the TA/DA on Ki-84 flying (you giving me tips on that bird), perhaps we can set up a time to work on your gunnery and maybe get some Hayate flying in as well.  I think I'd start with flying around in the TA with you shooting at me, so you can tell me which shots are commonly problematic for you.  Feel free to PM me about doing that, as I'm happy to provide whatever help I can.

<S>
Ryno

[ink]

My apologies to Batmannn, as we seem to be derailing his thread a little, but gunnery was definitely one of his issues, so I suppose it's still in the realm of "on topic".

In response to INK:

What might be helpful first, is for me to see one of your films in question.  Can you post or PM me a film with the "nose bounce" issue in it?  (If you can, let me know what particular time segment in the film you want me to look at.)  That might help me see the problem and possibly help diagnose it.

As Shida (hey Shida, good to see you!) said above, it could be micro stick corrections or it could be the "hunting for the center" effect the FM has if you release the stick abruptly.  It could also be "fighting the auto-trim" as well.  Or it could be a combination of all three issues.  Seeing a film might help diagnose that a little.  

The exercise(s) in question are more about looking at your results.  So, simply explaining them here along with all the information needed to self-analyse the results is going to be too difficult and may not entirely help.  It would probably be a lot more helpful if we could get together in person, so I could walk you through two exercises that relate to maneuvering and unloaded shooting and go over your results with you.  

Since you and I had already exchanged PMs about working in the TA/DA on Ki-84 flying (you giving me tips on that bird), perhaps we can set up a time to work on your gunnery and maybe get some Hayate flying in as well.  I think I'd start with flying around in the TA with you shooting at me, so you can tell me which shots are commonly problematic for you.  Feel free to PM me about doing that, as I'm happy to provide whatever help I can.

<S>
Ryno

going to TA would be great...any time after 8pm eastern....just give me a day notice...

[Kingpin]

going to TA would be great...any time after 8pm eastern....just give me a day notice...

INK, PM Sent.

For anyone else interested in any basic gunnery topics, I won't be available to plan a time to run the full course again until August or September, but if you see me in game (RynoRush), feel free to PM me and if I'm available I can pop into the TA with you.  I don't want it to sound like this was just some exclusive offer to INK, although he and I had planned to meet up anyway.

<S>
Ryno

[Iamtheknight]

Groovy. Got a film I can see?

Sort of. Instead of pulling up 90 degrees, pull up 110 degrees and you'll be tilted a bit on your back. This is what I mean by cross the vertical. To shoot you, your opponent will have to do the same. After you cross the vertical again it will look a little like a very thin "S". The effect is a little like the spiral described above in that it makes it hard for the lower-E plane under you to follow and aim for a shot. Instead of rolling for the second cross he may try to use his rudder or negative elevator to get a shot which will make him stall even faster. Unlike the spiral, this is better used when your enemy has better climb rate/angle than you and he can "out spiral" you. This is the typical situation in the planes that I fly, but in your case, the La7 can spiral the heck out of the F4U, as long it is not a -4.

Nothing is guaranteed, he may still get a lucky shot in.

[nrshida]

As Shida (hey Shida, good to see you!)

Hi Ryno, long time, no see  

I always respect your opinion 

 

I even had one of the very best shots ingame try to teach me...

Well it could be something very simple. I should imagine you have very fast visual to motor reflexes, that might be causing your bounce, especially if you stress about your shooting. You can take that out by the eye closing thing. Do it a few times and report your findings. At least it will dismiss things if it doesn't help.

but I never pay attention to the gunsight...

Ah! But you should know where it is. So what I was referring to before is to visually track your target as the shot emerges BUT ALSO be aware of your gunsight. But don't stare through the gunsight because you lose the tracking effect. Human beings are very good at learning this kind of convergent point. Look at ball games for example. It might be you didn't develop this because you have a different method or approach.

Try to vary the nature of your shot too. About half my shots in the Ki-84 were / are three tiny bursts of maybe 5-6 rounds each. Brap brap brap. I did something weird for crossing shots but that's another story.

You might be snatching your trigger. Map a button on your throttle instead and see if that helps.

[ink]

Hi Ryno, long time, no see  


 


Well it could be something very simple. I should imagine you have very fast visual to motor reflexes, that might be causing your bounce, especially if you stress about your shooting. You can take that out by the eye closing thing. Do it a few times and report your findings. At least it will dismiss things if it doesn't help.


Ah! But you should know where it is. So what I was referring to before is to visually track your target as the shot emerges BUT ALSO be aware of your gunsight. But don't stare through the gunsight because you lose the tracking effect. Human beings are very good at learning this kind of convergent point. Look at ball games for example. It might be you didn't develop this because you have a different method or approach.

Try to vary the nature of your shot too. About half my shots in the Ki-84 were / are three tiny bursts of maybe 5-6 rounds each. Brap brap brap. I did something weird for crossing shots but that's another story.

You might be snatching your trigger. Map a button on your throttle instead and see if that helps.

I have tried so much...I did map my secondaries to the throttle a long time ago...didn't help at all....

for awhile now I have accepted the fact that my aim is just bad...

but screw that....there should be no reason I am not hitting a good 9% at the minimum...

its very strange some days I cant miss...they are rare...the more I think about it...you touch base on it when you said..."stress about your shooting"

I do that...a lot....and then get pissed at myself and lose all concentration and just say screw it...


hey BTW

how little Shida doing?

he must be getting huge by now...I bet you are smiling...

I am gonna be a granddad twice over very soon....

2 of my daughters are prego right now....will be my first grand kids.

[bustr]

INK,

1. - Do you have the same problems offline shooting drones as you maneuver around them? Or do you nail them at will?
2. - If your online con is sub 400 in a low E turn, 5 to 20 degrees to your line of travel. Can you hit that almost every time?
3. - When you unload for a snap shot, the con sub 400yd traveling 45-90 degrees to your line of travel. Do you lead with the windscreen uprights or shoot after it passes into the windscreen area and even onto the gunsight reflector plate?
4. - Sometimes at the last moment on a deflection or unloaded snap shot, do you catch yourself anticipating the con correcting it's line of travel due to a latency sudden update and flinch your pipper to try and account for that?

Your ACM is some of the strongest in the game due to your time with the muppets, along with my personal experience against it. So out flying your con and setting him up for a close range shot is already in your favor for most of your engagements. In those cases where range is sub 350yd, leading on crossing shots with your windscreen bars fulfills the timing for lead. 1\3 second to 1000ft(333yd). At 50 or 300 yards, the speed of your con dictates your lead allowance, and it will be the same allowance 50 or 300, 45-90 degrees of your line of travel. The reference to the windscreen bars.

You once mentioned your internet connection is a satellite modem while you play from a laptop using WiFi. If this is still true, maybe you have always had more latency than a lot of other players at both ends of the ACM relationship when it came time to pull the trigger.

[ink]

INK,

1. - Do you have the same problems offline shooting drones as you maneuver around them? Or do you nail them at will?
2. - If your online con is sub 400 in a low E turn, 5 to 20 degrees to your line of travel. Can you hit that almost every time?
3. - When you unload for a snap shot, the con sub 400yd traveling 45-90 degrees to your line of travel. Do you lead with the windscreen uprights or shoot after it passes into the windscreen area and even onto the gunsight reflector plate?
4. - Sometimes at the last moment on a deflection or unloaded snap shot, do you catch yourself anticipating the con correcting it's line of travel due to a latency sudden update and flinch your pipper to try and account for that?

Your ACM is some of the strongest in the game due to your time with the muppets, along with my personal experience against it. So out flying your con and setting him up for a close range shot is already in your favor for most of your engagements. In those cases where range is sub 350yd, leading on crossing shots with your windscreen bars fulfills the timing for lead. 1\3 second to 1000ft(333yd). At 50 or 300 yards, the speed of your con dictates your lead allowance, and it will be the same allowance 50 or 300, 45-90 degrees of your line of travel. The reference to the windscreen bars.

You once mentioned your internet connection is a satellite modem while you play from a laptop using WiFi. If this is still true, maybe you have always had more latency than a lot of other players at both ends of the ACM relationship when it came time to pull the trigger.

got me confused with someone else...I have never played from a laptop nor said I have...

my first PC I bought just for AH and have rebuilt it once 4 years ago.

 when I had comcast my aim was just as bad....


now as far as your whole post in general 

I know we have had words and don't always see eye to eye and I think you sometimes type way to much....

but that was a awesome post and gave me lots to think about.

I really don't pay attention to anything inside the plane....while fighting or flying.

sux I recently deleted the game...a folder of 10 gigs of films are gone....

but I watched them a lot and my rounds, I would say fall behind the enemy more then anything else...

I appreciate the complement, I have fought hard to get my ACM where it is at....yes many of the muppets have helped....

unlike most who play the game...they take up bombers.... GVs.... Jeeps....(haha what the hell is a jeep doing in a game called Aces High:-)

I have literally only flown fighters...maybe 30 sorties in something other then fighters....in all the time I have been here.

 fighting every fight no matter the numbers....for 10 years IE tour 52....(cant believe its been that long)..only flying fighters...in fighter mode.....is what got me where I am.

[nrshida]

I have tried so much...I did map my secondaries to the throttle a long time ago...didn't help at all....

Ah that's good, we know you're not a trigger snatcher then.

its very strange some days I cant miss...they are rare...the more I think about it...you touch base on it when you said..."stress about your shooting"

I do that...a lot....and then get pissed at myself and lose all concentration and just say screw it...

Ah I can help you with that! So you might have a nasty feedback loop going on here. You being stressed about your own shooting applies psychological pressure onto the next shot which then goes less well which in turn feeds back into the next shot. So even if you are in the background improving in the foreground you are stagnated. This would also explain your nose bounce which I assume only happens at critical shooting moments? You are unwittingly looking for evidence that you can't shoot and then subconsciously finding it. Brains are funny like that. A possible strategy: part time obviously because those mofos aren't going to kill themselves - so I mean set aside time to work on this:

Reposition your head so your gunsight position is right in the centre. Halfway between top and bottom frame and in the centre left and right. In the Hayate you won't be able to see the centre of the sight anymore. Doesn't matter because step two is to get rid of your gunsight, turn the brightness down to zero. Now when you're taking a shot you have no gunsight and must cultivate an experimental 'about there' approach about lead and also your firing point. This might work because it breaks your goldshyness (archery terminology) and encourages an exploratory outlook instead of an expectant one (which can of course be very disappointing). You can leave your tracers on. Overall relax, let the lead out, let the cannon do the work 

Worth a try anyway!

Of course you may not have considered that your bad gunnery might be God's way of giving the other players a chance. Sure hope I don't get struck down by lightening for trying to help 

hey BTW

how little Shida doing?

he must be getting huge by now...I bet you are smiling...

He is very well thank you my friend. He'll be two in August (unadjusted). A very happy and intelligent little chap. We are very lucky and happy. Being a Dad is even better than being in a balls-deep Ki-84 turn fight with a Brewster when you pop your boards out 

I am gonna be a granddad twice over very soon....

2 of my daughters are prego right now....will be my first grand kids.

Whoa, congratulations! That's fantastic 


Err, not wandering off topic at all am I? 

[ink]

....


He is very well thank you my friend. He'll be two in August (unadjusted). A very happy and intelligent little chap. We are very lucky and happy. Being a Dad is even better than being in a balls-deep Ki-84 turn fight with a Brewster when you pop your boards out 

that is awesome news I am very happy for you and the missus....and yes you are so very correct.


the rest of the post...lots to think about

[Gman]

INK, I know you need no advice re fighting, certainly from me, but if you don't mind me asking, how do you hold your stick when you fly.  Specifically, where is your forearm and elbow.  Something that really helped me remove nose bounce and helped me fine tune my aim was moving the stick forward a bit on my desk (on the right side as I'm right handed), and planting more of my forearm and elbow especially on the desk instead of it floating in the air.  I can still lift off for violent maneuvers when I need to, but most of the time I can move my CH stick around just fine while my arm is at rest and stabilized on the desktop.

It's not for everyone, but if you were like me with your arm and elbow floating in space, try planting it and relaxing it and see if it changes how you pull the stick at all.  

I have and have had every HOTAS known to man since the original Epyx 500xj for the C64.  I still find CH Combat/fightersticks to be the best and easiest to set up to remove nose bounce and the inaccuracy that surrounds stick set up.  I use Ack Acks scaling pretty much exactly, and find it pretty much eliminates a lot of potential problem areas, at least for me.  Everyone is different I realize, but I'm a firm believer in giving the planted arm in the side stick position a solid try.

[ink]

INK, I know you need no advice re fighting, certainly from me, but if you don't mind me asking, how do you hold your stick when you fly.  Specifically, where is your forearm and elbow.  Something that really helped me remove nose bounce and helped me fine tune my aim was moving the stick forward a bit on my desk (on the right side as I'm right handed), and planting more of my forearm and elbow especially on the desk instead of it floating in the air.  I can still lift off for violent maneuvers when I need to, but most of the time I can move my CH stick around just fine while my arm is at rest and stabilized on the desktop.

It's not for everyone, but if you were like me with your arm and elbow floating in space, try planting it and relaxing it and see if it changes how you pull the stick at all.  

I have and have had every HOTAS known to man since the original Epyx 500xj for the C64.  I still find CH Combat/fightersticks to be the best and easiest to set up to remove nose bounce and the inaccuracy that surrounds stick set up.  I use Ack Acks scaling pretty much exactly, and find it pretty much eliminates a lot of potential problem areas, at least for me.  Everyone is different I realize, but I'm a firm believer in giving the planted arm in the side stick position a solid try.

I have an old laptop holder...its like a small adjustable platform that a laptop would sit on...that is where my CH fighter stick is on... in between the legs....so essentially my arm is hanging but I tuck it against my side for stability....

I don't think I could ever get used to having the stick on the right like in a jet....never done that.... seems weird 

I did try to keep my arm on the chair rest, but I get lazy doing that