Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.

[-tronski-]

I wish it was that easy Ranger but I'm with you - while those Russian backed scumbags control the site there will never be proper answers, there will never be a proper recovery and those poor people & all those kids will litter those fields until something changes.

 Tronsky

[GScholz]

The separatists shot it down. That much is clear. However, from intercepted radio communications and the fact that they are scrambling to cover it up it is equally clear that it was a mistake, not a willful act. Sheit happens in war, something the US military has proven on numerous occasions. If I were to point a finger I would point it at the airline for flying over a known war zone where several Ukrainian aircraft have been shot down.

[Serenity]

The separatists shot it down. That much is clear. However, from intercepted radio communications and the fact that they are scrambling to cover it up it is equally clear that it was a mistake, not a willful act. Sheit happens in war, something the US military has proven on numerous occasions. If I were to point a finger I would point it at the airline for flying over a known war zone where several Ukrainian aircraft have been shot down.

I agree, I cannot understand how anyone thought that would be a safe idea, though I wouldn't take an ounce of blame off of those pulling the trigger. The Vincennes wasn't let off the hook...

[GScholz]

The Vincennes was a different story. It actually sailed into the territorial waters of another nation and shot down one of its airliners. While the Persian Gulf was a known trouble spot it wasn't a war zone where aircraft were regularly being shot down. In eastern Ukraine the Ukrainians are using their air power against the separatists. The separatists have no air power of their own, but they possess some air defense capabilities. It is only natural and understandable that they use this AD capability against the Ukrainian aircraft. It was into this hornets nest that the Malaysia Airlines chose to fly MH17 with 298 people on board. I think the separatists should be excused for thinking nobody would do something like that and mistaking the 777 for a Ukrainian military aircraft.

The Vincennes incident is a case study in failure of command and leadership.

[Groth]

 Limiting group members is not just limited to flying. I was in Boy Scout troop that had previously had a tragic experience. Several Scouts with their leaders were traveling in 4 vehicles in a line, an accident developed directly in front of the first car, and it and second were destroyed. The following two were able to avoid the crash.
 The entire male lines of 3 families died.
 After that families were split up, cars left at different times.
                                                                                    JGroth

[Karnak]

I agree, I cannot understand how anyone thought that would be a safe idea, though I wouldn't take an ounce of blame off of those pulling the trigger. The Vincennes wasn't let off the hook...

Malaysia Airlines was not the only airline flying over that area around that time.  Others, including British Airways, had also just passed overhead. KH17 was above the altitude of the closed air space.

In retrospect, yes, they ought to have gone around, but per the warnings what they did was appropriate.

[USRanger]

They are now saying 80 children were aboard.    They say no one can secure the crash site to even start collecting bodies because of those stupid wanna-be soldiers.  How about we we actually USE the 82nd Airborne Division to take & hold it, instead of decades of practice jumps & never using them.

Because of reasons... Mostly the 10th Spetsnaz Brigade, 22nd Guards Spetsnaz Brigade, 346th Spetsnaz Brigade, and 25th Spetsnaz Regiment that are deployed not far away. And the fact that a war with Russia is bad mmkay.

Well, I was going to say a Ranger Battalion, but I didn't want to get too crazy. 

[ghi]

Ukraine MIA: at 4.50 a.m. recorded a truck loaded with SAM, without one rocket on the road to Russian Federation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0

Intercepted audio with ENG subs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo

[Nath[BDP]]

can we send this guy in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5DsLow4SVQ

[-tronski-]

Well, I was going to say a Ranger Battalion, but I didn't want to get too crazy. 

A Ranger Battalion vs all those Spetnaz regiments??? Thats just ridiculously outmatched...








...better make it a reinforced Ranger company

 Tronsky

[guncrasher]

Limiting group members is not just limited to flying. I was in Boy Scout troop that had previously had a tragic experience. Several Scouts with their leaders were traveling in 4 vehicles in a line, an accident developed directly in front of the first car, and it and second were destroyed. The following two were able to avoid the crash.
 The entire male lines of 3 families died.
 After that families were split up, cars left at different times.
                                                                                    JGroth

that pretty much has been the standard for a lot of major corporations since the 80's.  I went to  many business trips to new york from Charlotte, NC  and our company never allowed more than 4 employees in the same airplane.  and a manager and section manager from same department could not fly in the same airplane.  this was pretty much the standard up until now since this incident.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771

that single airplane crash wiped out the to management of a company.

semp

[Karnak]

It should be noted that those traveling to the HIV/AIDS conference were not part of the same organization.  Going to the same conference isn't the same as coming from the same company or university.  The reports I am seeing are saying 7-10 were on board, not 100.  Significant names in the field to be sure, but not 100 of them.

[zack1234]

Some of these post are very frightening and "Nationalistic"

Can this post be locked?

[Copprhed]

Whose side are you on, zack?

[mbailey]

Some of these post are very frightening and "Nationalistic"

Can this post be locked?

If we lock this tread the terrorists win