Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.

[Serenity]

Then I apologize. I'm probably getting institutionalized with the AH forum and feel discussion is usually the pre-fight to derision and insulting dismissal. In this thread there has been selective responses which degrades the discussion. I felt you were insulting my intelligence.

Absolutely not. I cannot stand your stance on firearms, and THAT comment felt like a dig at my intelligence, but I thought this was a great intelligent discussion.

I have a 250 year old wakizashi which I can draw cut and return to its case very quickly and my life experience has shown me I'm much more likely to sell it to feed my family than to use it to protect them  

While I have my sharp, carbon steel officer's sword, I imagine my 1911 and AR-15 will serve me much better.

This is the second airliner shot down in living memory by a SAM with a devastatingly unnecessary loss of life. This time most of the dead were from the country I presently live in and the national grief and acceptance is tangible. Especially to think of the eighty children killed I find this act abhorrently objectionable. How dare these people do this to innocents. I just thought it obvious that an innovative IFF system for civilian aircraft would have prevented this.

I agree, it's an absolute tragedy. But you and I are approaching this from different standpoints. You are looking at it (I assume) from the perspective of a civilian concerned only with preventing deaths. I am coming at from the perspective of an individual employing these weapons. While it would be great to create something that would keep civilians safe, any weapon that isn't effective enough to guarantee a kill on an enemy, will NOT be used. If it's not used, safety is meaningless. People are the best way to prevent death.

[GScholz]

I hate to break it to you Shida, but shooting down airliners is almost as old as human flight itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

[Ripsnort]

This thread is wandering into areas it should not be wandering into.  Heads up!

Is that your way of saying that you are blaming the airlines for wandering into battle-zone airspace?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I hate to break it to you Shida, but shooting down airliners is almost as old as human flight itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

And quite markingly the first incident was done by who else? Russians.

[nrshida]

See Rules #2, #4

[GScholz]

You have ethical issues designing offensive weapons... What's "offensive" in this context?

[nrshida]

You mean designing an IFF for civilian airliners?

[GScholz]

No I meant your VTOL design thingy...

[nrshida]

No I meant your VTOL design thingy...

Oh I see. Well the JSF brief seemed to be mainly an element of an overall offensive strategy. I wasn't comfortable with that so worked on an interceptor design operating out of clearings like the original Harrier. Quite hard to do though. I decided a long loiter time was needed so that meant plenty of internal fuel which of course incidentally meant a long range to strike - if you wanted to do that with it. Only did it for the design challenge. The propulsion system had some very nice problems to solve.

[GScholz]

I'm taking a wild guess here; you're not a big fan of preemptive self-defense are you?

[Serenity]

See Rules #2, #4

[Skuzzy]

Ok, this just went far off the rails.  Next post decides if this thread should be locked and the person making the post to be suspended, or not.

Get it back on track folks.

[nrshida]

Ok, this just went far off the rails.  Next post decides if this thread should be locked and the person making the post to be suspended, or not.

Get it back on track folks.

If my comments have been deleted because they might offend the higher prevalence of military and ex-military people on this forum then I'm a little loathe to apologize. I myself rather find needlessly killed civilians and children offensive especially when the majority were from the country I presently live in. Lives lost by incompetent military or paramilitary personnel. Let's at least be adultly honest about it shall we.

Further, if I occasionally say things which border on offending internal American values how is that deliberate flamebating when in other countries such topics are freely allowed to be discussed without being considered a forbidden attack on nationalistic ideology? Is that actually my problem? I am not an American citizen, am not part of the American culture and am not subjected to the nationalistic policing of what I may and may not say. Does the rule state 'do not say anything that Americans might find offensive'?

I think you have my email address Skuzzy. If it is necessary to ban or suspend me from the forum then I should like an elaboration via that medium if you have the time.

[Serenity]

If my comments have been deleted because they might offend the higher prevalence of military and ex-military people on this forum then I'm a little loathe to apologize. I myself rather find needlessly killed civilians and children offensive especially when the majority were from the country I presently live in. Lives lost by incompetent military or paramilitary personnel. Let's at least be adultly honest about it shall we.

Further, if I occasionally say things which border on offending internal American values how is that deliberate flamebating when in other countries such topics are freely allowed to be discussed without being considered a forbidden attack on nationalistic ideology? Is that actually my problem? I am not an American citizen, am not part of the American culture and am not subjected to the nationalistic policing of what I may and may not say. Does the rule state 'do not say anything that Americans might find offensive'?

I think you have my email address Skuzzy. If it is necessary to ban or suspend me from the forum then I should like an elaboration via that medium if you have the time.

Notice my post got hit too. It's not about nationalism, it's about the fact that both of us were getting a bit off track. I don't understand the flame-tag either, but hey, such is life.

We are all deeply hurt by this tragedy. There is no doubt about that. It should not have happened. I think we can leave it at that and kindly go on with our lives.