Author Topic: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...  (Read 1431 times)

Offline Volron

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 09:21:29 PM »
Since adding player controlled infantry is one of the things HiTech has stated he would like to be added to the game, hopefully it comes sooner rather than later but I suspect the development would be a rather large undertaking.

ack-ack

Yep. :)  So those who -1 this, AH will get FPS.  It will happen and you will like it. :D


If anything, I rather HiTech worked on the Naval aspect of the game before tossing his cookies into the FPS basket.  We have Air and a bit of Land, but Sea is so badly lacking that you could almost omit it from advertising.  Sure you have the PT boat, but that's it for player controlled ships.  The Task Groups can only be marginally controlled, which any maneuvers applies only to the entire fleet, and really they just serve as nothing more than a mobile base and artillery platform.  I am hoping that HiTech can push a more defined Naval aspect of the game before War Thunder finally gets into it.  We have seen the water he intends to put out with the new engine, so I will bet my cookies that is what will be worked on next. :aok
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Offline glzsqd

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2014, 09:36:10 PM »
Yep. :)  So those who -1 this, AH will get FPS.  It will happen and you will like it. :D


If anything, I rather HiTech worked on the Naval aspect of the game before tossing his cookies into the FPS basket.  We have Air and a bit of Land, but Sea is so badly lacking that you could almost omit it from advertising.  Sure you have the PT boat, but that's it for player controlled ships.  The Task Groups can only be marginally controlled, which any maneuvers applies only to the entire fleet, and really they just serve as nothing more than a mobile base and artillery platform.  I am hoping that HiTech can push a more defined Naval aspect of the game before War Thunder finally gets into it.  We have seen the water he intends to put out with the new engine, so I will bet my cookies that is what will be worked on next. :aok

I agree with this.
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Offline EagleDNY

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2014, 09:42:00 PM »
-1 go play WW2 online or WOT or any of the other FPS games.

Offline Tinkles

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2014, 11:23:30 PM »
Yep. :)  So those who -1 this, AH will get FPS.  It will happen and you will like it. :D


If anything, I rather HiTech worked on the Naval aspect of the game before tossing his cookies into the FPS basket.  We have Air and a bit of Land, but Sea is so badly lacking that you could almost omit it from advertising.  Sure you have the PT boat, but that's it for player controlled ships.  The Task Groups can only be marginally controlled, which any maneuvers applies only to the entire fleet, and really they just serve as nothing more than a mobile base and artillery platform.  I am hoping that HiTech can push a more defined Naval aspect of the game before War Thunder finally gets into it.  We have seen the water he intends to put out with the new engine, so I will bet my cookies that is what will be worked on next. :aok

Agreed with the latter part  :D


I'm not sure on the FPS part, simply because it could (and most likely would) take most if not all of the resources that HTC has to develop the fps.  I think the FPS would be more like unturned (akin to that of minecraft) than anything close to a decent graphics FPS (call of duty 4 for example).  I am not trying to undermine HTC's capabilities, but just asking questions or concerns that have surfaced since thinking on an FPS element in AH.     To what extent would FPS be in AH, would I be able to bail my plane, take a pre-determined (or chosen by me) firearm and storm an enemy tower to take a base? Or would I be able to man an LVT get out of it and take control of a port?   I can see a c47 deal with 1-5 slots being reserved for players who could bail and take a base. But there is also a huge amount of data that would have to be configured.  How do FPS players interact with those in the air, those on the ground?  How much damage does an FPS do to a tiger 1 or 2 tank?  How do those in the air spot infantry on the ground?

I can already hear the whines of players 'just cruising in a tank or plane' and "randomly" die from an infantry shooting their rifle or bazooka at them and getting a kill.   While I do like all the possibilities of the above, I am unsure as how that would assimilate into an Aces High environment, and whether the GV, Plane, Gun and Naval parts could adapt and be 'as one' with the FPS, or if it would be a slug-fest on which is better and who should get what (sort of a microcosm of what we have now in a way).

Again, I do support FPS, but I think if it is done it should be baby steps, see how everyone likes it. If few like it, then polish it and observe. If many do, then go all for it. But I agree that naval combat should be polished and improved before any FPS element is introduced.
 :salute
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 06:33:42 AM »
 :aok
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Offline Tinkles

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 05:17:36 PM »
Not a hi-jack, but it is relevant to the topic.  :D


Friend introduced me to a game today that has been very fun to play.  This is basically what I was thinking of when the FPS element was introduced.  Of course, no FTP elements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obC-BbHSrq8

FPS, Plane and GV warfare, no naval that I am aware of. 


Those who are interested in trying it I warn you, there are no icons for enemies, so you need to move your screen a little closer.  :neener:
If we have something to show we will & do post shots, if we have nothing new to show we don't.
HiTech
Adapt , Improvise, Overcome. ~ HiTech
Be a man and shoot me in the back ~ Morfiend

Offline bustr

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 05:58:21 PM »
Not hard to imagine this FPS style action happening in our Town and at fields in the next 18 months with a limited number of trooper types. First we need the new game version and the rounds of bug patches to stabilize it. But, then the question becomes, at what point does this game become an idiocrasy? And $14.95 a month is rejected by the kiddies because they can FPS shoot each other everywhere else on the Internet for free.

It's a given you could fill the MA up with 2 weeker "freebie" kiddies running around in FPS mode by word of mouth advertising with the word "free". Then greifing the "paying customers" on the runway trying to take off for an air combat fight. Forcing subscription players to waste the limited time they are paying for, just to do vermin disposal to get to a furball. This would kill subscriptions.

And then it would be "Welcome to Aces High the Idiocracy". Sure, the DA furball lake would fill up for a little while. But, that is not the Aces High unique air combat MA experience being paid for.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2014, 12:24:46 AM »
I believe the relative ranges involving defensive ack and your standard infantry rifles make getting close enough to a field for 'griefing,' as you call it, a very much one-sided situation. Even the shoulder fired rockets and PIATs are limited to about 500 yards, while most infantry rifles would be hard pressed to any accuracy beyond 3-400 yards even with a scoped rifle.
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Offline Tinkles

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2014, 02:50:38 AM »
The way Heroes & Generals works with the way infantry interacts with planes (which are higher up on the 'scale'), is being able to choose the type of ammunition you carry. I fired at planes and it would indicate that armor was too thick (at the bottom of the plane) but if they were foolish enough to dive on me and show me their canopy, I could get a few rounds in there. But I never got a successful "battlefield 3/4 style kill", so it's not going to be like BF3/4 where you can snipe helicopter or jet pilots from 1/2 way across the map.       


I think if an fps element was added, that only AA guns could do serious damage (like they do now), and infantry sub-machine guns or rifles wouldn't do serious damage to planes, so as not to grief pilots. For I do understand that.  I feel sort of in the middle, I like the naval aspect to be (submarines and volrons ideas in another wish thread), GVs, Planes, and although the minority, Gun, Ship or Field.   Then to add an FPS element to that, I get to hear those wishes too.  :rolleyes:

I like all those perspectives, but if you give one more power, the others become weaker or complain more. 

If the time ever comes for HTC to make an FPS element, I have some interesting ideas for it that would use what is already here as a foundation, and just add a few things here and there that the FPS players could interact with, that would include them, but not exclude anyone else (or give the FPS an edge either).



 :salute
If we have something to show we will & do post shots, if we have nothing new to show we don't.
HiTech
Adapt , Improvise, Overcome. ~ HiTech
Be a man and shoot me in the back ~ Morfiend

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2014, 03:08:26 AM »
I like the idea of IFVs spawning with joined infantry deployed around the vehicle, with the vehicle engine off to listen for campers. This would allow any shoulder fired rockets or PIAT type weapons to come into play and prevent a single shot from removing the danger for campers. Airfields that have enemy infantry nearby (not in the town) could also have a separate alarm to distinguish the two. Infantry could also booby-trap supplies and engage the Storch types. I would like to see tank commanders added. Not to kill a vehicle by shooting the commander, but to wound him and force a retreat sounds like an opportunity to bust up a camp.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2014, 07:10:43 PM »
After an airfield has been de-acked, pilots over the years have bailed and fragged just spawned pilots of planes through the canopy from a few feet away. We would have an idiocrasy of 2 weeker FPS kiddies once it was figured out you can de-ack a field with fighters.

None of you ever present the unintended consequential down sides to your mental monuments to yourselves. If I can see this exploit, two week freebie kiddies will see it also. That's what they are good at in all those other "free" FPS games. Then think of a bunch of bored vets looking for some fun who really know the game mechanics....

Just make a list of all the nasty, LAZY, self serving, underhanded things you could do with this, and you have a pretty good list of the real unintended consequences to the game community. But, then if you are Hitech, he's stuck having to make that list to see if he even wants to get involved.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2014, 01:00:39 AM »
The sky is falling bustr. The game you know must evolve. Your fears stem from past experience without the benefit of knowing the changes that are coming. Why do you chose to forecast gloom? It is precisely the same mindset that prevents us from having really good experiences in the MA, because the very first time a base gets taken Ch2 lights up with "we suck." Channel your experience to evolve with the changes that come, instead of prematurely giving up.
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Offline 49MERLIN

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Re: Intruducing Infantry in a rudimentary/quick start format...
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2014, 01:04:09 PM »
First of all I would like to thank everyone for their comments on my ideas, they are greatly appreciated and I think most people understand where I was going with the idea.  One other thing you should know is that I would love to see the naval aspect of the game improved first as well.  I should have mentioned this before, but the excerpt that this infantry idea was taken from was a forty one page quasi-code brief of which the infantry composed about a page and a half.  The rest of the brief was focused on how to implement various ship types, (combat & noncombat), from the view of the player with the understanding of the basic framework already establish.

A Response:
I NEVER intended that anyone would ever assimilate this idea with a Battlefield 3 or 4 type experiences.  I literally meant an infantryman that would look and act just like a bailed pilot with maybe the ability to kneel in order to reduce his profile.  The only differences would be different guns/equipment extended from the "pilot's" arm, no enemy icon on a "pilot" until 500ft, and maybe a few minor others that are not even worth writing about.
 
To those who think that an FPS experience in AH would flood AH with infantry I would imagine a player may have more fun just going outside and shooting imaginary friends with sticks; that would probably be more fun, have better mobility, and better imagery.

Yes, some players would be pulled from GVs & Planes to play as infantry, but I believe this would be only occasionally, and would serve more to pull players to the game through player options than would cause players to quit due to bad game experiences.

I imagine that being an infantryman would be much like driving a PT boat.  It would be more of a novelty used for specific occasions rather than as a major offensive force.

I envision a scenario where an infantryman would be killed instantly with a shot to the head or torso, and would bleed out as if pilot wounded if hit in an extremity.  This would make them very vulnerable; so vulnerable in fact that if you whine because one shot you it would damn near be your fault.  Being realistic, anything .50 caliber and above would be an instant kill making it incredibly easy to eliminate infantry.

I don't know about you but I can not imagine a player with a gun and no speed or armor making a drastic difference in the major war effort.  If you have ever taken a base, or done anything of note with a bailed pilot, please find me in the MA I would love to meet you because you are surely a GOD.  I can't even get a lightly armored GV (Jeep, M3, M18) next to a base without getting killed, much less on foot.  I'm not sure that even a team of 5 to 10 infantry could do much to a base, but they could cause enough confusion in the enemy to make it fun for all playing.  Being realistic... If you were really worried about being killed while spawning an aircraft at a base it would take multiple de-ackers, with players who know what they are doing and would most likely entail a hell of a long walk for any attacking infantry.  Even if the infantrymen took a ride in a GV to the base from a friend you would still find yourself in a situation where multiple GVs would be around a de-acked base.  This is a situation you should not take off from anyway, but lets say you did and got killed.  You could then launch from the hanger, bail out, and go shoot the guy who just shot you with your pistol, or better yet spawn as an infantryman and shoot him in the head with your rifle.

People surely would not play AH for the FPS capabilities as so many others have stated the FPS experience can be found for free elsewhere with better functionality & graphics.  On the other hand I believe the current and future players who view AH as a very capably WWII simulator, and not solely an aerial combat Sim, would greatly appreciate the added spectrum of game-play and options for attack.  For those who think that it will make it less realistic please tell me a war that has ever been won in reality where there have been no boots on the ground.  Yes, the FPS would be arcade like, but that would be intentional, and would further reduce the hardcore FPS players.

In general, after examining the pros & cons (even the ones you think I haven't thought of) I am of the opinion that an arcade style limited ability infantryman would be a positive addition to the game for many well thought out reasons.  There would be few things that an infantryman could do that can not already be accomplished by some other means in the game already and would therefore be no more a detrimental addition to the game than say a Jeep or a Storch.

One other thing, just so everyone is clear on this; I do not think that my ideas are monumental, spectacular, or better than anyone else.  I am completely aware that there have been countless others with this idea or ideas like it over the years.  Please forgive me for not researching and scouring the former years worth of wishlist posts which I'm sure address this topic.  I merely intended to get the communities opinion on what my RUDIMENTARY ideas concerning this topic were.

Once again your input is greatly appreciated either for or against.  It would however be nice to see the Debbie Downers smile a little more in life!!!