stealing valor

[Gman]

Lusche, that's actually not a bad idea - if you ever run into one of these guys, point at a random ribbon and ask him how he won his Christopher Pike medal of valor, and see what he comes up with.

[Cthulhu]

In the OP's photo, ya almost HAVE to ask the guy if he is "Captain Obvious" and has additional ribbons and medals on his back.

On his back??? 

[Chanter]

I just don't understand these guys.  Here in Canada for people who have NOT served, but had a parent/grandparent/etc serve and have passed on, they are allowed to wear their 2nd World War and Korean medals on a black suit jacket, on the opposite side of where it is properly worn, as a sign of respect, as well without wearing any head dress at all, to show that they aren't a vet themselves.  Nothing like what the OP tard is up to, but I have seen this done in Canada properly on rare occasion during Remembrance day or funerals.

I understand that in Australia and NZ this is common as well, on Remembrance day/vets day to wear ancestors medals on the right side, it even has an official term IIRC called "passing the Anzac torch" or something similar.

(Image removed from quote.)

 Personally I have mixed feelings about this, I have both grandfathers WW2 and one set of Korean medals, and I'd never wear them, even on the right side on Vets/Rem day, but if some want to honor their family in this way, I suppose it's ok on just one day and if done in the proper accepted way.

Actually Gman, that is incorrect and a common misconception.  Canadians are not authorized to wear medals of relatives at any time, period.  It's a chargeable offence under the Criminal Code of Canada.

Chanter

[Gman]

Check PM.  Article 419 of the Criminal code has been interpreted differently by many, however it has been common practice recently what with the 150 dead from the Afghan mission for family members to follow the practice I described earlier.  Some have complained about it.  Nobody has been convicted under article 419 for wearing a dead relatives medals, there have been about 10 charges laid under 419 from 2004 to 2009, none for family members, and all withdrawn or stayed anyway, and no charges under 419 as of 2009, so draw your own conclusion I guess.  I do agree mostly, that it probably shouldn't be done, but it IS legal and common practice in several other commonwealth countries, and again, no family member has been convicted under 419 in recent memory.

In fact, 419 is not considered a blanket prohibition by many, and many vets groups in Canada differ in their opinions.  The law specifically says "without lawful excuse", and many on one side say honoring fallen family members is such a lawful excuse, and point to the fact that the law was passed many decades ago in order to stop many scammers trying to get free WW1 vets benefits.

Google gives a large number of examples, but as I said, it has become a more common practice in recent years which is why I even brought it up, and nobody has been convicted for a family members medals, even though some vets groups have made complaints and launched campaigns against the practice.  

The Canadian Legion has specifically gone on record to say they don't want to stop people from honoring their family by doing so, they just want a crystal clear law or amendment saying it is 100% legal to do so before supporting it officially.

Royal Canadian Legion, Canada’s largest veterans group, which has more than 500,000 members.

The legion denies this.

"I don’t know where somebody got the idea that we’re against [people wearing their relatives’ war medals] – all we’re doing is obeying the law," says Bob Butt, director of communications for the Dominion Command of the Royal Canadian Legion.

"Until we get a resolution through the [legion’s internal] resolution process that passes dominion convention, the legion is not mandated to do anything about the law. Until we’re mandated, we don’t take any action."

 It certainly is done in a different spirit than the goof in the OP, but again, isn't something I would choose to do, or even support for that matter.

[Puma44]

Wearing a dead relative's medals to honor them is completely different than some little weasel collecting all the medals, badges, ribbons, etc that he can come up with. Then try to impress someone else with something he doesn't have the brass to volunteer and sacrifice on his own.  Pure cowardice.  No honor.  No self respect.

[morfiend]

 I have several medals,well I should say my wife has several as they are her Dad's hard earned awards,including master jump wings and as much as I'd like wear them I would never consider it.

  Law or no law IMHO it's disrespectful!


  We display them in a shadow box with a pic of him and his father who served in WW1




     

[Chanter]

Check PM.  Article 419 of the Criminal code has been interpreted differently by many, however it has been common practice recently what with the 150 dead from the Afghan mission for family members to follow the practice I described earlier.  Some have complained about it.  Nobody has been convicted under article 419 for wearing a dead relatives medals, there have been about 10 charges laid under 419 from 2004 to 2009, none for family members, and all withdrawn or stayed anyway, and no charges under 419 as of 2009, so draw your own conclusion I guess.  I do agree mostly, that it probably shouldn't be done, but it IS legal and common practice in several other commonwealth countries, and again, no family member has been convicted under 419 in recent memory.

In fact, 419 is not considered a blanket prohibition by many, and many vets groups in Canada differ in their opinions.  The law specifically says "without lawful excuse", and many on one side say honoring fallen family members is such a lawful excuse, and point to the fact that the law was passed many decades ago in order to stop many scammers trying to get free WW1 vets benefits.

Google gives a large number of examples, but as I said, it has become a more common practice in recent years which is why I even brought it up, and nobody has been convicted for a family members medals, even though some vets groups have made complaints and launched campaigns against the practice.  

The Canadian Legion has specifically gone on record to say they don't want to stop people from honoring their family by doing so, they just want a crystal clear law or amendment saying it is 100% legal to do so before supporting it officially.


 It certainly is done in a different spirit than the goof in the OP, but again, isn't something I would choose to do, or even support for that matter.

Got your PM, thanks.

What I was replying to in your original answer was the statement that here in Canada, people are "allowed" to wear their relatives' medals on a certain outfit (and I'm not sure where the interpretation of what outfit you can wear the medals with came from either) That's simply not true.  Want to and allowed to are totally different animals.

The Legion can say what it wants, but there is little if any room to interpret 419(b).  It's not lawful excuse; it's lawful authority.

[JunkyII]

Combat Infantryman Badge 3rd award....Must have been in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam.

[Gman]

I wondered what that meant, thanks Junky, I'm all know-ed up now.  Do they do the something with the combat stars on jump wings do distinguish between wars, ie Sar/Maj Plummly having jumped in WW2 and Korea for example, is there a way of differentiating those, or is it just another star on the wings.

Chanter - like I said, you can think what you like about what the law means, but if you google and search the cases where charges were laid, every instance of a family member wearing medals on the right side of a suit coat on Rem day have either never been charged,  or in the couple of cases in the early 2000's where the charges were dropped.  Since then, the L/E and MP's of Canada haven't charged anyone based on the case law established, which was directly due to the interpretation of the "lawful excuse" clause of 419.  If anything the practice has increased since 2008, again, which is why I brought it up having seen it done recently twice in the last few years, yet despite complaints, nobody gets charged, much less convicted any longer.

[Scherf]

Down here it is indeed common practice for relatives' medals to be worn, on the opposite side, primarily on Anzac Day. In fact it's officially encouraged - keeps numbers up for the remembrance ceremonies and parades as the ranks of veterans thin.

That said, it's the medals which are worn, not the uniforms. I mean, when you see a sixty-something woman wearing a darkish coat, slacks and a DFC (among other medals) on her right side, you can be pretty sure she's not an impersonator.

[DaveBB]

On a serious note, which Aces High pilot is this?

[Nefarious]

Since men have fought each other there have always been some men who have impersonated them for the glory, recognition and personal gain. This is only going to become more prevalent in our lives with the ongoing conflicts we're living in.

[RTR]

edited...chanter beat me to it.

Cary on as if you were normal!

RTR

[mechanic]

Since men have fought each other there have always been some men who have impersonated them for the glory, recognition and personal gain. This is only going to become more prevalent in our lives with the ongoing conflicts we're living in.

Perhaps if we didn't glorify, recognise or attribute personal gain to killing each other in the first place the problem wouldn't exist. That's not a dig at soldiers or any particular nation and it is most definitely not a defence of these disrespectful imposters. Just an observation regarding the consequences of the human condition.

[ozrocker]

Wow





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